For those insisting that playing hard is merely a choice, I'd say that is true in the sense that shooting a free throw at the basket is a choice. Yeah, anybody can do it. But how good are you at playing hard (likewise, how good are you at making the basket)? To me, that's a very meaningful question. Some players have more energy to tap into. Some players know how to harness that energy better than others. Some players have the ability to max out their physical tools better than others. Whether you want to call that skill or talent makes no difference to me. But its something worth putting a value on. I think that's what Morey means when he says the Rockets consider "playing hard" a skill.
No one can't say AI doesn't play hard. But there's also consistency and playing smart. Having drive is a crucial skill.
"Some players have more energy to tap into. Some players know how to harness that energy better than others. Some players have the ability to max out their physical tools better than others." Earlier, you compared it to beating an addiction. That's an apt comparison in some ways. Some people are better at beating addictions than others, for a variety of reasons. You're trying to simplify it to "its just a choice". Human beings aren't that simple.
Those who are better at beating addictions are souls who really want to live on. Call it the instinct to survive or just see the next light of day. It's pure willpower.
General manager Daryl Morey has said that playing hard is a skill, too. He meant that plenty can be accomplished by teams that outwork the other guys. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/6706326.html It has been stated by the Master himself...... so..... Case closed.
I will never believe playing hard is a skill. I do think its a characteristic, but its something u either do or don't. I do agree durvasa about some guys have more energy to tap into to make them play hard for longer periods. That said, there is a reason why a guy like say shane isn't as good as say prince. Prince is more skilled because he worked on his game every yr. Oakley was a more skilled player than chuck despite both being ground guys. When 2 guys of the same ability both play hard, the more skilled guy will win out all the time.
I agree with that, but that's true even if we treat "playing hard" as a skill. Just like if two guys with the same ability have the same shooting skill, then the guy who's more skilled in other areas will win out.
I quit smoking after 15 years. It was simply a choice I had to make. Nothing more or less. That doesn't trivialize it - but that is exactly how I managed to quit - by realizing it is a choice and nothing more. Was it a skill? Am i better at quitting addictions now because of it? No way. I still have plenty of vices.
Choices are easy to make. Following through on such choices requires something more, and for some its much harder than others.
Durvasa, I will try not to derail this thread, but maybe this will kinda tie this playing hard as a skill thing. When I played D-1 (90-95) and prior to that when playing summer league and high school, everyone played hard. What has happened is with the corruption and high density infiltration of AAU ball, a lot of kids don't liked to be coached. Kids never used to change schools unless their parents were offered new jobs and when they went to college, they were there for 3 yrs and that ch demanded things including playing hard from their stars. Now u see these guys being managed in high school and managed the 1 yr in college, not coached. They're not coached because of the threat of them going to another school or just leaving. Durant,beasley,mayo,and carmello were never coached. The results are a lot of these guys have to be coached and coaxed to play hard. This is why I think carmello is in that elite status. This is the first time that he's been coached hard. Like him or not, but karl will coach a player hard and have been on carmello since he's gotten there. That denver team plays hard and they have talent. Another spin is why I think coaching is more important now. Coacing and the belief in a coach is the reason why memphis and the clippers aren't playing better. I think the sign of a good coach is to always having his players compete every game and pretty much every possession. I guess in short, I believe its a important attribute, I don't think its a skill. Sorry for the rant, but I think aau kills basketball.
from the chuck chron piece: "Sometimes winning and losing is just a matter of who plays the hardest.” said by elston turner... personally i think playing hard at a certain moment or even a whole game isn't skill, as anyone can do it, but playing hard most of the time or i guess consistently is, not everyone can claim their at the top fo their game almost every night. That's why we got players who go on great playing runs for a stretch of games or even for a season or two, then they fade away again. if that quote is true, then if you consistently play hard then that alone is going to win you some games, which tells me it can be as valuable as the ability to score, to shoot, to defend, to rebound, etc, any other skill that can also be the difference between winning ans losing.
But that is the exactly the point why playing hard isn't a skill. Everyone can play hard through sheer effort. True people do and I agree that is a mental thing. I would say though a skill is something more fundamental. It is relatively easy to overcome laziness but not poor shooting.
Obviously playing hard is very important but I don't think its a skill. You could say that taping up your ankles properly is very valuable and their are some trainers who do it better than others. So in that case is ankle taping a skill?
Something being relatively more easy woulnd't mean its not a skill. "Everyone can play hard through sheer effort" sounds like a tautology to me. Everyone can want to play hard. Everyone can try to play hard. But not everyone can play hard to the same degree. And I do think there is something fundamental at work there. Some guys are just wired in a way where playing hard comes naturally to them. Other guys aren't. That doesn't mean a player can't train himself to play hard by habit. But it doesn't just happen over night, like an epiphany. Your mind and body needs to get used to playing that way.
for a trainer? Of course it is. Why wouldn't it be? Being able to properly tape an ankle for a trainer is almost like dribbling for a ball player.
For me, guys with the reputation of playing hard are guys who play with a consistent level of high intensity no matter what the context. They're out there giving their best whether it's a game in February or Game 7 of the semifinals. It's what JVG admires in Shane when he talks about how Battier "plays the same in every game." Or how Chuck Hayes seems to stay in the flow of the game, regardless of whether he plays the entire game or a select 5 minutes. For many players, that kind of focus and intensity seems to come and go depending on numerous external conditions: the importance of the game, the intensity of their teammates and coaches, their contract situation, etc. But for those "hard workers," they are somehow able to stay "in the moment" and not let those external factors dictate what they do on the court. I suppose I'd call this ability a skill since it can be taught and learned. But I believe it takes countless hours of dedication, on the court and off, to hone it as one, perhaps as much time as it took Ray Allen to shoot the way he does, or Steve Nash to make his incredible passes. And given how so few players actually play hard "night in and night out", I can't help admire it and call it a talent.
Yes, if you can get better at it then it is a skill. Therefore, playing hard is a skill. For example, carmelo.
skill: Proficiency, facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed through training or experience. You don't learn to breathe. You do learn to work hard. Somewhere along the line a har working person was taught what hard work was and/or how to work hard. In some cases it's purely observational where you studied someone else who was a hard worker and picked it up from them. I wouldn't call that training, but i think it would fit under experience.
