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Is playing hard a skill?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DaDakota, Sep 26, 2009.

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Is playing hard a skill?

  1. Yes

    58.6%
  2. No

    41.4%
  1. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    That's like saying anyone can be a good shooter if they shoot better.

    What I'm suggesting is that some people have a much harder time putting forth consistent effort. I think its a mental thing. And I could say the same thing about shooting.
     
  2. matty101

    matty101 Member

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    Id say its a commitment more so than a skill. I think its an accurate measure of how good a coach is. A good coach is able to make 15 guys, with guaranteed contracts and earning millions of dollars, come together and play as one unit and play hard night in and night out. It's a testimony to their coaching abilities.
     
  3. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Those are skills - but that's not "playing hard".

    Getting loose balls is partly a skill yes....but the act of diving for the ball is "Plyaing hard" there is a difference.

    There is a method to get around a screen - you can't just "play hard" and barrel your way through...you have to anticipate and know how much contact, and you need a burst of speed and the right foot work...you have to know how to maneuver your body - and know whether to go under or above the screen. And you have to know how to punish the screen, and know how to draw a foul on a moving screen.

    But it does also take hustle.

    So yes, hustling - playing hard - helps these skills develop and look better - it's an ingredient in all aspects of basketball.

    Everything in basketball takes playing hard except maybe shooting skills.
     
  4. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    I also feel this is an anti-McGrady thread not so cleverly disguised.
     
  5. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Bingo. This makes me believe that "working hard" is a talent and not a skill. To me, a skill is something that you develop over time, and yet how exactly do you practice working hard? The moment you start practicing diligently that already means you're working hard. Its something that's instantaneous, the moment you exert extra effort you're already working hard.

    On the other hand working hard is something everyone knows they should do but not everyone does. Jerome James knows he's not going to sniff a contract unless he works hard, and yet he keeps on gaining weight anyway. You can't really force someone to work hard because then they won't go as hard they possibly could. The ability to recognize, react, and then follow through with working hard, I believe its somewhat of a talent. Kobe Bryant is one of the hardest workers in the league, and I think his competitive drive and desire to be the best is something that can be seen as a talent.
     
  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Not at all, when I did the thread it was based upon Morey saying it in several interviews.

    DD
     
  7. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/6706326.html
    Right.
     
  8. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    I think its a meaningless distinction you're trying to make. It still comes down to this: as with any skill, its possible to get better at it the more you practice doing it. Still, some players won't ever get particularly good at it because of us some innate limitations.

    I think the same can be said about playing hard, and no one has presented a convincing counter-argument yet. Some players are born with the mindset of playing hard. Some players have to cultivate that mindset by developing that habit (i.e. "practice", essentially). Some players just don't have it in them, personality-wise or perhaps due to physical limitations, to be able to develop that habit.

    From a practical standpoint, it just makes sense to treat it as a skill.
     
  9. RocketRaccoon

    RocketRaccoon Contributing Member

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    At first I voted no...I was very high on the fact that I pulled myself out of the ditch without talent...just hard work.

    Then I realized that my "hard work" was an attribute of my dad, which he instilled in me.

    Both skills and hard work are taught attributes.

    So, and after much debate with myself, I have to say it is a talent.
     
  10. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Except a guy who doesn't hustle can easily become a guy who hustles over night.

    It's not a mental skill, it's not a physical skill. It's not a skill. It's a state of mind.

    Playing hard is merely a matter of will. Anyone is capable of it.

    Not anyone is capable of being quick...of being a great shooter, or being able to dunk. Not everyone can gain the skills of Hakeem.

    But anyone can hustle like Shane Battier - it's just a commitment. Why don't more do it then?

    By your argument, not smoking is a skill. Being honest is a skill. Eating salads over mcdonalds is a skill


    No, it's not a skill, it's a choice.
     
  11. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    I don't agree with that at all. If it was so easy, then everyone would do it.
     
  12. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    Can he? I don't know of many examples (really none off the top of my head) of guys who didn't hustle suddenly becoming hustlers over night.
     
  13. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    People can quit smoking in one day. It's the logical thing to do. Yet millions of smokers continue to smoke each day. Because it's not easy.

    I didn't say it was easy - I said it could be done.
     
  14. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    It happens all the time. Mostly, it happens when guys go from a team where they are miserable to one where they are happy and the culture is that of hustling.

    You see guys come in from a team getting fat and being slow and the next season with a new team they lost weight and playing like they are 10 years younger...well, part of that is hustle. Shaq is a prime example when he came in at his first year of Miami.

    That's the thing - guys switch from being "lazy" to "hustle" all the time.

    Our guys are hustling, but that's the team culture right now. A few guys set the tone, and everyone picks it up. A lazy guy becomes a hustling guy in that culture.

    My own personal experiences was like that. I didn't hustle until I saw other guys who hustle, then I started hustling too.
     
  15. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    And people can shoot 90% from the free throw line. Its not easy, but it can be done.
     
  16. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Not at all, because shooting free throws is a phsyical skill.

    That's my point. Shaq practices free-throws probably more than anyone, yet he is still awful.

    But anyone can hustle at anything they do. It's a choice. You can't "decide" to make a free-throw. But you can decide to practice.

    You can decide to hustle.

    If there is any skill to hustling, it's that it takes a lot of cardiovascular health - and that might be part of the limitation with some players playing hard...that they don't do enough cardio.

    Also, big men will always have a harder time hustling than smaller players.
     
  17. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    There have been people of all shapes and sizes that can shoot free throws. As long as you have arms, hands, and can physically throw the ball at the hoop, you can shoot a free throw. The act of shooting is a combination of your brain and muscles working together.

    Playing hard consistently is the same thing. Guys can want to play hard. That's not enough. Your body needs to be used to it. What separates players that play hard all the time from players that don't is something that runs deeper than a mere choice.
     
  18. pmac

    pmac Member

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    Hmm....How would you describe there being such a high percentage of "star" players who don't work hard, atleast not all the time? Regardless of how hard Kobe, Wade, and Lebron work off the court even they take possessions off on the defensive end.

    Don't you think there's some trend of players who would otherwise not have a chance in this league that playing hard and players who would play regardless not playing hard.

    You could say I am somewhat in the middle on this one. I do not believe playing hard is a skill but I do think people bunch some talent and skills in with hustle or playing hard when describing players.
     
  19. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Like I said, there is a conditioning element to playing hard. But that's conditioning which is a choice as well - not a skill necessarily.

    Hitting FT's isn't the same. Just because you practice and do the right things doesn't guarantee the result. It's a skill - some people are going to be better than others.

    Playing hard is a choice. It's a choice to have your body in shape and conditioned, and a choice to go out there and hustle. That result is completely controllable. There's no doubt. With FT shooting, there's no guarantee you will make your next FT.

    And it should also be noted that certain players have to play hard in order to be on the court. Role players have to play very hard because they have less minutes and those spots are the most competitive for playing time. Also they can burn themselves out because they play limited minutes so there's no getting tired by the 4th qtr.

    As for starters, there's very few players who play hard all the time on both ends of the court. In fact, I don't think it's possible. Human bodies can't take that.

    Kobe takes it easy on D at times...in fact the reason they got Ron Artest was so that Kobe could expend more energy on offense and less on D.

    Shane Battier rests on Offense - he parks his butt behind the 3 point line and that's how he plays so hard on D "consistently"

    Everyone puts their energy into some part of their game...for Shane, it's defense and practice. For guys like Lowry it's in running and plowing but he's not boxing guys out. hayes works hard by wrestling and diving...but he's not sprinting on every transition - i have seen him job up the floor.

    You'll see this if you watch a player versus the ball. You'll see they stand at times...or leave a guy and get lost.

    Doesn't mean they don't play hard, of course they do, but you can't be everywhere all the time - you won't very long out there without affecting some other aspect of your game negatively...unless all you are is a hustle type of guy.
     
  20. OddsOn

    OddsOn Member

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    I answered NO it is not a skill...

    To me a skill is something that you develop over time. You may even have a natural gift or ability lending to your development of this skill but you still have to work at it to develop it to a high level of expertise......think of walking a tight rope.

    Playing hard is just plain effort. In that sense it is your mental attitude, work ethic, etc. Think of Ryan Bowen, this guy doesn't have anywhere near the skill level of anyone else on the floor yet he managed to have a roster spot in the NBA for many years based on his pure effort and hussle.
     

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