That squares up pretty well with you making the thread in the first place. You are clueless when it comes to the relationship between Christians and liberals. Republicans have done a good job of creating wedge issues, but both liberals and Christians (or at least Christ) are about peace, love and understanding. And brotherhood. And taking care of the least among us -- a thing you call entitlements with your characteristic sneer. Liberals or Democrats are against certain hateful, divisive preachings, but they have never been against Christians or Christ; as has been pointed out to you over and over again, every Democratic nominee for all time has been a Christian. And the vast majority of liberals and Democrats are Christians too. Are you saying they are the natural enemies of themselves? It is the assumption that liberals and Christians are natural enemies that is so offensive and that grows ever more so the more you act obtuse while one poster after another points out the various flaws in your (mis)understanding of the relationship between the two groups. Every liberal and every Democrat I've ever known is only so inclined because they wish our country's politics would hew closer to the teachings of Christ than not. This is not because their religion tells them to feel so, though for the vast majority that is also true; it is because the Democratic party platform is pretty much just a series of beliefs and maps whose feet are all pointed in the direction of Christ's message of compassion, redemption and brotherhood. We're the party that's Christian in the way of loving our neighbors; the other one is Christian in the way of hating theirs. Wait a minute. Both things can't really be Christian can they? No. They can't.
Lots of pastors are whack jobs, and yet their flock can still be "true" Christians. As for a poor excuse for a Christian, given that a fundamental tenet of Christianity is that people are flawed and have all fallen short and sin, I'd be curious to hear your definition of a "good Christian". Educate us all.
Based on the responses you're getting throughout this thread, it's pretty clearly a fairly common sentiment: most people have no clue what you're talking about. You make random, unsubstantiated claims. Then you backtrack on them and claim you weren't saying them. Then you ignore things that might challenge any of your original thoughts. You mix politics and faith, and then claim you're talking about one or the other. And on and on.
ugh, your going back to core beliefs and ideals. Of course liberals are not against Christ. Atheists don't hate Christ either. I never said they did. This thread is a perfect case study of people seeing what they want to see. You have people come in thinking I was slamming Obama, people thinking I was slamming Democrats, those thinking i was being racist etc. mc mark is pure politics and he saw a political discussion when he saw it, which really made me lol.
read whatever you want, I never made claims, just theories/ideas. I tried to ignore tangents, I only mixed faith in begrudgingly in replies and constantly asked to keep the discussion outside of theology.
Yes - and your claims make no sense. From your original post: It also answers the question of why liberals don't have a problem with his Christianity. Liberals don't have a problem with Christianity in general, of course they don't have a problem with his Christianity. When called out on that, you claim you are talking politics and not faith, but that's clearly not what your original post said. Then you said there are "incongruities" with his Christianity, and said one was that liberals were OK with it. You have yet to explain what on earth you meant there. You said another was that he chose Wright's church - never mind that all sorts of people choose churches for different reasons. What is incongruous about that? Do "true Christians" only come to Christianity a certain way? Do they avoid certain churches? Do fake ones go to Wright's church? Please expound.
I've read through the thread and am still not clear what the point is. If you are saying that Obama isn't a Christian I think you have your answer that most here are willing to accept that he is. That includes people who by their own admission are devout in their beliefs and are not fans of Obama politically.
Just for some historical relevance consider that most great liberal / progressive movements in this country were led by Christian leaders who were often very religious, Abolition, women's suffrage and Civil Rights to name a few.
If you re-read my posts you will see the answer to the other questions but: Yes people go for different reasons, as I guessed in the OP, and as your quotes from Obama basically confirmed, he went to the largest church to help people and become a part of the community. I never said he wasn't a true Christian because he joined a church for non-religious readings. I said true believer, it's in the title. mc mark answered it directly. If you are saying he joined for one reason but then became one, great, that's your opinion. Would have loved for you to boil all of your posts down to that. They certainly do avoid churches, I know people who have bailed on churches when they get too political (they were democrats and didn't want politics and religion mixed)
I think the problem is people are looking for some hammer to drop and me make some terrible conclusion. My opinion was a) he joined for non-religious reasons b) some liberals find this comforting and I think Major's quote confirmed 'a' and liberal posters confirmed 'b' to be partially true.
How dumb of me to go back to core beliefs in a thread about whether or not our president is a believer. People seeing what they want to see? That is certainly true of you. You keep saying liberals and Christians are like oil and water. And everybody keeps telling you that's ridiculous. And you just keep seeing what you want to see. This is one of your poorer efforts.
You say that of all my posts so get a better insult. This was a two part brain vomit. First part was true believer, second part was liberals vs Christians politically. And it is people seeing what they want, you saw racism right out of the gate.
I do not think that Christianity and liberals are oil and water. For example, statistics show that African Americans overwhelmingly identify themselves as religious Christians..... and yet they overwhelmingly vote for liberal leaders. If you are saying FUNDAMENTALISTS or evangelical, then I think you have a point.... but really those are just a different interpretation of Christianity. There are
I agree with this..... people let their own bias interfere..... this goes for the left and the right..... Personally, I do not care if Obama is or is not a Christian, in large part because I believe that his acts are overwhelmingly positive and happen to be in line with the Christianity I learned...... Let me turn it around on you......... if Nancy Reagan came out tomorrow and said that her husband did not really believe that Jesus was the son of God.... would it really matter?...... Judge a man by his actions, not his private thoughts.
Does a good Christian say what Pope's have said in the past? Do good Christians hate Jews as Martin Luther did? Do good Christians follow a faith that is responsible for one of the largest slaughters of Indians ever? Do good Christians make anti-semetic Remarks like Billy Graham?
