Anyone arguing against Wilt: He averaged 8.6 APG in 1968 to lead the league. Let me say that again: he LED the league in assists AS A CENTER. Sure he was a great scorer/rebounder, but damn, he could do anything he wanted to on the basketball court. But yes, MJ is top 5...although it is kind of close (Wilt, Russell, Kareem at C; Magic, MJ, Oscar Robertson at G, IMO)...
I'd throw our own Hakeem on there. And since so many people think Shaq is better than Dream, he might belong in the debate as well, free-throw shooting notwithstanding. So who comes off the list? It's arguable that MJ gets bumped off just because the centers have been so dominant in the history of the league. Having said that, any top 5 list without MJ just wouldn't seem right.
I wanted to throw Dream in there but held the homer in me back. But, yeah, the argument gets tricky and definitely is not nearly as clear-cut as all the MJ = GOAT contingent make it out to be.
the time period that wilt played in DEFINITELY made a huge impact on the #'s he put up. he was the tallest player on the court and played teams composed almost entirely by white guys. enough said.
You only think the argument is only weak because you don't agree with it. History does NOT support MJ as the greatest ever. In fact, that site has a much better argument against than any Jordan supporter's argument I have ever seen or heard. ESPN is the embodiment of corporate media; they are caught up in flashiness which explains why they are so enamoured with Jordan.
My answer: I really don't know where he is. Wilt is #1, then there's Jordan, Jabbar, Hakeem, Russell, Robertson, Magic, Bird in some order... I'd say definitely top 10. Definitely. Perhaps top 5. Maybe even #2 all time. Just don't feel like thinking that hard right now.
I'm not sure about Wilt, but Michael Kept a bunch of NBA Hall of famers/soon to be Hall of Famers/50 Greats out of a championship. That includes our boy Patrick Ewing, or other boy Karl Malone, John Stockton, Reggie Miller, and Charles Barkley. David Robinson got his in 99 after Jordan retired, but did it also riding the coattails of another potential Hall of Famer in Tim Duncan.
True, but Russell & Wilt had a monopoly on championships for 13 years running... granted most of that was Russell, but Russell had better teams.
I was actually just arguing on this except is Jordan really considered the best player in the NBA history. There is no doubt Jordan is top 5 player in history but not that sure on being the best. Wilt was crazy, Kareem has more MVPS and the same amount of championships. Plus he is all time leader in points and 2nd in blocks (hopefully Mutumbo passes it). Russell had like 11 championships.
I'd have to look it up, but I think the players in Jordan's era were much better than the players in Russell/Wilt era. Jordan, is defintely the best player of his era which is the mids 80s and 90s.
I won't say that's not a possibility. However, I will say that there were only 8-10 teams in the Wilt/Russell era, so the existing talent was far more concentrated. Not much room for stiffs with only 10 teams. And I'm not so positive Jordan beats out Magic and Bird. Maybe, but not sure.
Actually, that shows how WEAK the league was back in the Wilt era. How could the guards let a center lead them in assists per game? Only if they were not really competent to begin with. In it's highly developed stage now, there is absolutely no way a center (or any other position other than point guard) could lead the NBA in assists. So this point you presented to support the case for Wilt as the best, has turned out to be the telltale sign that Wilt was a great player in a not-so-great era.
He made teams much better teams. He was the consummate winner. Best...of all time? Arguments can be made for many. They are the few in the great pantheon of all time greats.
Wilt decided he'd lead the league in assists. The play started with a pass into Wilt and he helped create the baskets for others. Yes, Wilt was that good. Wilt v Shaq would have been interesting because WC had superhuman strength.
Throughout the mid-90s HO was even greater than MJ. And The Dream was great for years before. MJ sustained his greatness longer, won more championships and deserves accolades. So, too, does Olajuwan. And Magic, Bird, Oscar, Kareem, Logo, Cooz...
I'm not seeing your logic here. Why can't a big guy lead the league in assists, if he's just that good? Magic was 6'9. Does that mean he shouldn't be able to do it? It depends on what kind of offense you run. When Bibby was with the Grizzlies, he was up there with the leaders in assists. When he got traded to the Kings, everyone was like "he's gonna lead the league, the Kings are so much better on offense than the Grizz!" What happened? His totals declined. DRASTICALLY. Why? Because Sacramento runs an offense in which the big guys are given opportunities to pass. There's no basis for saying there's "absolutely no way a center could lead the NBA in assists." Improbable, yes. But if you have the right personnel, good coaches will let their big men pass.
Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Bob Cousy, John Havlicek, Walt Bellamy, Willis Reed, Tom Heinsohn, Oscar Robertson, Bill Russell, Bob Pettit, Hal Greer, Sam Jones. How many Hall of Famers are on that list? Oh yeah...players in Wilt's era must've REALLY sucked.
