The reason why LeBron never had a great coach is that he never lets a head coach head coach. Any self-respecting coach wants to make an imprint on a team and he won't when he has to run the LeBron system. He also has to manage a headcase superstar. That's tough. Remember, Ty Lue almost lost his mind. He refused to coach him again if he didn't receive assurances in the form of a long contract. As far as Spolestra, Phil Jackson was also unproven when he first coached Jordan. On another level, you know Jordan was the better asset to "handle" because he always delivered. He always fulfilled the script right down to his final shot.
All true, yet, the Buss family got more basketball success out of Kobe in his 20 years than Dan Gilbert and Micky Arison got out of LeBron in their 10 and 4 years.
Well there was a guy named shaq who spent his prime in la……I get people disliking lebron, i’m not a fan myself but the lunacy has to have limits. You can dislike curry but saying kyle lowry is better is not ok
He let Lue and Spolestra cosch, especially after the shaky start with Heat and Riley shut that down real quick, even Bron admitted going to Heat was like going to college and for most part real coaches(Riley) runs that and they all fall in line Which is why he reverted back to old ways going back to Cavs and on to Lakers which led to AD trade which prior came landing Love to go with Irving Jordan was also a headcase who wanted to win at all costs, his former mates have plenty of stories where Jordan tells them before games he was getting his 20+ shots, Jordan choked his teammate in practice and after winning first ring in year 7 he had Stern/Refs in his back pocket I only mentioned Spolestra to showcase the true coaching structure that could keep Bron in check because it was P Riley team, I wasn't comparing Spolestra/Jackson in experience Jordan fulfilled his script by winning 6 rings and not winning in the other 9 seasons, I think Jordan wanted a more Russell script and win 11 rings in 13 seasons But his 90s run was a hell of a script indeed, even his 80s script was dominant just didn't reach a Finals trip in those early chapters Bron and his 10 Finals trips is pretty strong script as well Flip a coin and take one or the other, I Am good with whoever is leftover
Lakers nation bias members could make a case for their favorite player who they worship like he is their prophet yehoshua Kobe has a strong enough resume, if it was bringing up Miller/Richmond type player than that shouldn't be taken serious But everybody has their personal favorite and are blinded by supreme homerism syndrome, it is what it be I'd draft Bron over Kobe to start my team based on them coming out of HS, others may choose Mamba
Other issue with the 20 year kobe nonsense is it only exists because he was a laker. If he was drafted by the pacers or cavs or some other random team he’d have left, 100%.
I remember it differently with Miami. After the collapse against the Mavericks, the Heat gave LeBron more responsibility. Wade talked about how they needed to let LeBron be LeBron and how he needed to take a step back in terms of leadership. Of course, you could say that makes the most basketball sense. This is true, but it also shows that LeBron needs his teams to run the LeBron system. He needs to be at the center of EVERYTHING. Even in Miami, there was talk about him regretting joining the team, and there was the failed powerplay to get Spoelstra taken out. He also left Miami. That all goes to show that the viewpoint that LeBron never played with a great coach or well-ran organization is moot. The truth is, he doesn't want to be coached because the coach will control the way he plays, and he doesn't want to be in a well-run organization because that will mean he doesn't make personnel decisions. By the way, the explanations for the collapse in the 2011 Finals ranged from choking to malfunction to self-sabotage (to prevent the Heat from winning the Heat way and having Wade win the Finals MVP) to throwing the series to fulfill some humiliation ritual. Different headcases. LeBron is the emotional, passive-aggressive, machiavellian type of headcase. He'll lie to your face. Jordan was just an uber-******* obsessed with winning. Jordan will punch you in the face. But he was used to coaching, playing within a system, and he wasn't a control freak. Players like Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant could grow and develop around Jordan. Those types of players either get traded or never develop with LeBron. They just don't. LeBron was held in check after some appeasement. And he still stayed only 4 seasons. Phil Jackson also doesn't happen around LeBron. The triangle offense never happens with LeBron. Jerry Krause never happens, either. Like you said, you have to take the good with the bad. Jordan's script just reads like a storybook. From being "cut" from his high school team to hitting that shot against Utah and the image of him in the air with 6.6 seconds left on the clock. The 6 for 6 with 6 FMVPs gives you a 666. The death of his father in the woods. His script was written and executed flawlessly. LeBron's... My read on his script is that LeBron was supposed to win more. It was supposed to be nice. Unforced. He wasn't supposed to leave any doubt. Something always goes wrong. He malfunctions, goes rogue, chokes, and something happens with his teammates. There is still a chance he has his own 666 going 6 and 6 with 6 FMVPs. But that is looking more and more unlikely.[/QUOTE]
Oh, i'm not the biggest Kobe stan at all. I disliked him as he was an arrogant, selfish, fake little prick until he became a better leader late in his career ad then he really found himself and became one of my favorite interviews eventually. I really grew to respect him and look back now with more overall respect. What Lebron fans will argue against Kobe is numbers. They'll say LeBron was the best player of the league through all of Kobe's late prime, yet Kobe was going to 3 consecutive Finals, winning b2b beating 10 50+ win teams in the process over those 2 seasons. Kobe's individual prime was in the slowest, best defensive era before hand check was officially abolished and everyone including Kobe's numbers sky rockets-but it's obvious if yall care about numbers Kobe would be blazing the league with over 40 a game in todays game. While i do not think he was nearly as good as MJ on defensive consistency and doesn't deserve many of those defensive team selections, he played selective defense and when he was selective he was elite, but he didn't rest the way LeBron does. Lebron will be a matador, watch someone go by him and do his usual antics physically displaying blame on his teammates and not himself. Kobe like Lebron has huge stains on his career, but they're less severe than LeBrons. Where Kobe quit in g7 against the Suns, he at least had an insane overall series including a game winner and 50 piece.(If that was the Pistons sans DPOTY Wallace and HOF Larry Brown-Kobe would have killed them in 5 with literally nobodies while Bron gets credit for beating that shadow of the Pistons that beat the Lakers.) Lebron on the other hand has 2 absolutely embarrassing Finals performances, 1 of which he gets excused for being young-while at the same time receiving all the praise for getting there against trash competition. Then there's the 04 Finals and trade demands. You can add season in which he had Dwight and Nash and Pau and Artest and was about to miss the playoffs leading up to the injury-but he impressively willed them single handedly carrying a huge load to get them into the playoffs which cost his career. Winning-In a way Kobe had a blessing and cursed to play so young with Shaq. He's got 3 titles where he's not FMVP, and recalled upon as robin-something LeBron doesn't have. To be fair to Kobe, he was a clear 1B in the 2nd run and that's only b/c his 1A was a peak Shaq. I believe if LeBron replaced Shaq on that court, Kobe would be remembered as 1A to lebrons 1B. Alas, Kobe was a clear #2 for ring 1 and ring 3. People always say LeBron carried nobodies. No. His team was built specially to work around him, and they all played defense. Kobe carried actual nobodies in his prime and dragged nobodies to the playoffs in extremely competitive West while Lebron feasted on a trash Leastern Conference. Nevertheless they both couldn't get it done until teaming up with other talent. If you want to punish Kobe for being with Shaq early, then punish LeBron for teaming up in his prime and then again and then again. When you consider 1 of LeBron's is a bubble outlier asterisk run. In the end Kobe has more rings and considering Russ got his MVP being a 6th seed, Kobe should have another for sure. Is Kobe a better scorer than Karl Malone? No, Karl Malone had a middie face up game and fadeaway game. Is Kobe a better scorer than Shaq? B/c that's what separates LeBron scoring in a team system vs Kobe. Kobe can't bully to the basket, but Bron can't be relied upon to create a shot for himself-rather he beasts and bullies downhill to the basket for a ridiculous 76-80% gimmies in a league with no resistance and open lanes and nothing else even close to league avg. The numbers Shaq would put up on ridiculous efficiency under the basket would be insane, but would he be a "better" scorer than Kobe? Depends on how you view it. Personally. No. Kobe is a better, more versatile scorer. He's a better perimeter defender. He's a killer. And lastly he's electrifying. He's must watch tv. When he was on, his game was aesthetic and beautiful b/c it was patterned around MJ. Say what you will about Kareem, Duncan and LeBron, and Karl Malone, but there is nothing fun or inspiring about the way they play the game. Longevity-Kobe could have easily chased the record himself. He didn't play 20 years juts like MJ didn't really play 15 years. That's using no context. He was done at 34 and he came in off the bench for an all star. In total, as a healthy starter, we only saw Kobe 1,084 total games. Half a season more than we got to see Mike including his Wizards years( as a Bull we only saw MJ for a little over 900 games). Karl Malone over 1400, and now Lebron is over 1400 and climbing. Kareem over 1500. Longevity and avoiding injuries is amazing in itself for sure, but accumulating totals over that period of time especially in todays pace and space league is not the exclamation point you think it is.
[/QUOTE] Exactly right on all points. I just mentioned how the idea of LeBron carrying bums is not true. Those teams were built around his LeBron system and those early teams were defense heavy as well much like AI's Larry Brown Sixers that went to the Finals. The Lebron system like the Harden system and the Russ system and the Luka system and many of todays star players wasn't around since Oscar's hey day when the system was around him. None of them could win playing their system, until Oscar teamed up with Kareem and LeBron teamed with every star of his era. It's not a winning formula, but what do they all have in common? They're all stat sheet stuffing regular season heroes and playoff losers when the goal is to win it all. The only way for them to win is to stack the deck with talent. Even LeBron struggled to get his with all that talent b/c he forces those stars to basically become spot up shooters for him. How he can the narrative be that he makes players better, and at the same time he ALWAYS needs more help no matter how many stars and former all stars and role players he plays with? Also in common? Put all those guys off ball and they become statues. Ball hogging is different from chucking. Kobe and young Mike were chuckers, but they were not ball pounding hoggers. Mike especially still worked hard off ball, be it to get around a screen or to fight for post position. He didn't waste movement. He rarely ever overdribbled and made fast attacking decisions. He didn't stand like a statue holding the ball waiting for all 4 players to move off ball before deciding who to pass to or to shoot a distance 3 himself. That's not fun basketball. The off ball activity and no wasted dribbles is what makes Mikes game more fun to watch than Kobe's 1 on 1 iso where he does nothing else off ball, but a million juke moves and a tough basket makes the highlights for Kobe. He is the toughest shot maker ever, though. Mike and Bron just dont take those shots and ultimately the stat nerds will punish Kobe for it.
That's exactly what happened. Kobe told Charlotte that he would rather play in Italy than play anywhere else other than LA, that's why they traded him on draft night. His Airness = Antichrist in English Gematria. Compared to LeBron's life story, which is some kind of evil reflection of Christ's. Born not to a virgin named "Beloved", but a w**** named "Glory". All the "Chosen One" this and other messianic language used in his name. Both men were built to be idols to replace God from a very young age.
Jordan also went to the Bulls, a team with a horned mascot whose colors are red and black. If you know, you know what those things could mean. His number 23 possibly hints at DNA manipulation. Think of the intro song for the Bulls, Sirius, a star named after the Egyptian god Osiris. With LeBron, you have someone who doesn't know who his father is, survived a traumatic and chaotic childhood, and also wore number 23. Both are fighting to be recognized as the GOAT, another horned animal.
Well every team fan base has a group of those which vary in size, nothing more nor less Cowboys /Yankees fans also have a Lakers type worship following
Can GOATs change? It’s ALL time. I feel like that encompasses the future… once goated, to ungoat is to create a paradox that could destroy the universe.
[/QUOTE] The Mavs series was crazy because prior rounds Bron looked like the GOAT the way he played compared to Finals series Don't know if he froze himself out but there is no way you go from looking like GOAT to not even looking like you know how to play the game Wade ceded leadership because Bron was the better player, and Wade was wise for doing that in his house Jordan didn't embrace the triangle early, the Bulls pre titles was built on Jordan highlight reel system, even in the triangle it would end up pretty much Jordan killing you in iso/post up Well he left Cavs twice so leaving Miami wasn't big deal, he said it was basically his college career, so after 4 yrs it was time to dip, with 4 Finals during that span, win win for all parties involved With Miami he didn't need to be involved because Riley runs that ship, but those other GMs and even the current Lakers GM are nothing but patsy yes men, so of course you are going to want to call the shots, and only the true dominant ones carry that clout, Krause was just too silly to recognize it and broke up the Bulls second 3peat based on his giant ego The triangle offense was T Winters, maybe if Phil coached a Bron he would bring other assistants with him to do diff offense catered around Bron Jordan book is basically like all others, he got cut from varsity as a sophomore and I think stayed on junior varsity, that shot against Utah is no doubt epic and I already know about the 666, which the other 9(upside down 6) seasons he won no rings And there is allegedly people claiming they recently saw Jordan dad alive and well In sports you want a chance to win the ring, Bron has had 10 chances, and carries the number of defeat that Jordan has in victory To me win or lose I would rather go to most Finals Can you imagine Dream taking Rockets to Finals 7 more times regardless of the outcome, the fans/city would have enjoyed that ride sincerely Being obsessed to win at all costs is traits of a control freak, which Jordan had in spades, it is rumors out there that both of them are cheap when it comes up to leaving a tip They just go about it their own ego maniac way No player in NBA history after retiring has been more promoted annually like Jordan is compared to whatever player is hot/face of NBA
Phil Jackson wanted an offense that involved everyone. I'm not sure how he happened upon Tex Winters and the triangle offense but his time with Red Holzman as a player/coach on the Knicks convinced him that everyone needed to be involved on offense. The Knicks ran some sort of motion offense. There is definitely something esoteric about the triangle offense as well. The point is Jackson would have been disgusted with the LeBron offense or any offense that caters to a single player. And LeBron would have been equally disgusted by the idea of an equal-opportunity offense. It would have been nice to go to 7 more Finals with Hakeem, but LeBron didn't take a single franchise to the Finals 10 times. I agree that no retired player is promoted more than Jordan. I do wonder who is propping up who. Does Jordan stand on top of LeBron? Or does LeBron stand on top of Jordan? Or are they both feeding off each other? Either way, Jordan doesn't need the media to keep him relevant as he would still have his shoes.
