I really disagree. The stats here are tbh meaningless, the average player in Jordan's era wouldnt even make it to the league today. This is like using GLeague stats to compare to the NBA in today's time. The people talking about the 60 win teams MJ beat well sorry those weak ass teams wont get 60 wins in today's NBA. 80% of their roster wont even make the cut to be in the NBA. The reasons people worship Jordan are because Jordan only played in his prime, the lack of social media allowing Jordan to be deified and idealized, Krause being much better GM than everybody else and as I mentioned weaker players 40 yrs ago than today. Jordan entered the league at age 21 and only played 15 yrs with lots of breaks in between. Majority of his "dominance" was in those 8 yrs with the Bulls where he was like KD in GSW, the Bulls were so much better than every other team in the league thats why they never even had a game 7. If KD went to GSW as soon as he was able to and never left it would be like MJ on the Bulls imo. When Jordan didnt have help, we can see he is not that transcendent of a player just look at him on the Wizards or Bulls pre Krause. I am not saying MJ is not a superstar, but he also cant single handedly turn the situation around. He is just like Lebron, he can lift a bad team sure, but he cant will them to a ring in the end thats why MJ kept losing to the Pistons till he had help/Pistons got old. People always wanna act like there's a large gap between Lebron and MJ but we can see they both arent good enough to singlehandedly carry a team to a ring. Lebron oth, we have seen his entire journey from an 18 yr old to his 40 and the dude is still a top 15 player in the league. He didnt take any breaks like MJ and unlike MJ Lebron won rings in different situations first as the best player in the world in Heat, as a team leader in his prime on the Cavs and then as the older guy playing a supporting role in Lakers. He won in various situations unlike Jordan who only won in the peak of the Bulls team. Lebron also faced much better competition, Bulls were in a class by themselves during their rings era nobody came close. But my clincher for Lebron is just his longevity. Even if you can argue MJ is better player than Lebron, MJ played much less years and accomplished less than Lebron cuz he quit 2 times. Why is MJ not even being docked for retiring multiple times? Its like taking rest breaks during a marathon. I guess Lebron should have taken every 3rd year off to rest and rejuvenate himself? He would still end up playing more years than MJ. Lebron played 2 diff eras and still a superstar when he is the oldest player in the league. He has top 5 all time stats in two different categories lol. This shouldnt even be a question, Lebron is the goat. I know people always default to the rings, but again the only reason Jordan has so many rings is cuz the Bulls were so much better than everybody else. Again its like KD GSW being better than everybody else, if KD never left thats the MJ on Bulls situation. People dont give KD credit for his rings because its too easy but MJ had the same scenario for most of his career. In todays NBA the team strength matter more than any one individual just cuz the talent is so high now. Before in MJ time if you had a top 3 player you are a lock to make the finals or at least CF. Now we have Embiid who was MVP caliber but never went past 2nd round and Jokic has been the best player the past 5 yrs by a wide margin over everyone else but only has 1 ring.
This is a tough one to debate. I don't think this is as true as it is that guys used to beat the **** out of each other and fouls were fouls. Today's players are free throw merchants. I can't stand modern NBA officiating. It's sad when Euroleagues are more physical; NBA did that on purpose because ADHD American fans care about glamor and scoring. Modern money, sports science, and resources are making that difference. We are seeing players put up strong numbers longer in MLB and NHL as well, when they make 5-7x more money. Surprising! What happened during those hiatus years again? What basis is there for acclaiming the talent of the 4th-8th men on rosters today versus the 80s and 90s? You're oddly certain about this. Ask Dallas the difference a Luka or Dirk make. Ask Houston the difference a Harden made. Heck, ask Cleveland the difference a Lebron made. This is another thing I don't love about the NBA - single players make a majorly outsized difference, and that's why there are so many player-only-fans. That just doesn't happen in MLB/NHL/NFL very often. You can have your opinions but your certainty of them is odd.
Speaking of goat. That is the corniest commercial with a superstar since the old Taco Bell commercial below with Hakeem and Shaq.
I find it fascinating that dudes think failure is something abhorrent, it paved the way for further success. You are not learning anything from never ending success......
I didn’t even read it. the 2000s lakers are considered a transition point , shaq and Kobe in their prime ..unstoppable and heralded by most as one of the greatest teams. they got their asses handed to them by the jazz anybody objectively thinking those teams were worse and couldn’t make it in the league isnretarded. Those players back then could hit more 3s if they wanted and they could adjust to a new scheme (it’s not that hard to play an inside out game ask the 95 rockets). I would say individually the players have gotten worse but have a wider skill set. None of the mofos today could drive to the paint with an Oakley or Rodman in there. That post is so absolutely dumb idk what to say
This is all opinion based arguments and thats fine. You didnt even read it cuz you cant really argue any of my points and you are already set in your opinion no matter what. At the end of the day though there's been 40 yrs of development, training and technological improvement since the 1980s. If you look at other fields like say military or football it would be dumb to say no improvement has been made. If you look at the Olympic records 40 yrs ago and today, I am sure a lot has been broken already. Only in basketball people pretend the world stopped in 1980 and only got worse from there. If you look at the impact of globalization, basketball today is a lot more advanced and the entire world is able to enter the NBA unlike dream team days when US was dumping on other teams by 50. This means tofay the entire world can be in the NBA, unlike in 1980s when it was mostly monopolized by the US. Guys like Giannis, Jokic, Luka, players who are considered some of the best players today didnt exist back then cuz they didnt know about basketball or werent trained or didnt have opprtunity to go in the NBA. Those are all just facts.
You realize that is way more difficult to play God Mode in those 8-9 years described with those horrendously timed recesses in between........ than to stretch it out over 20-25 years and have that much time to win it....... But you are right that MJ was deified, he was God in basketball shoes. Lebron is the best Mortal player. That is the difference. They are in different leagues so I propose 2 awards for both in 2 different categories.
Everyone had to lose first before they won, this list would look much worse for literally every other superstar - except Bill Russell. (Even then, Bill only had to win TWO ROUNDS in eight of his eleven championships ('57-'65), and three rounds after '66 - Bill won when NBA had just 8 to 12 teams, whereas Jordan won when NBA had 27 to 29 teams. Other than Russell, Jordan literally has the best playoff resume out of anyone.)
If you are building a team with in his prime Jordan or LeBron, having lived through and warched both eras, I choose Jordan. LeBron will always be #2 but he is the greatest second best dude ever hands down. Better than Russell, Bird, Magic, etc.
Hakeem's the GOAT. Give him either of Jordan or Lebron's level of help and it's unquestionable because he'd beat everybody. Most complete player on both ends of the floor.
I think you'll find that Mount Rushmore is: Akeem Olajuwon, Hakeem Olajuwon, "The Dream" and "Mrs Olajuwon's baby boy."
Muffaka was the scoring leader pretty much every single year he played , was finals MVP, regular season MVP and DPOY (at the same time) multiple years. The league has always had Steve Kerr type of players that can play the 3 and D game, run. It’s not a secret. They were always valued, but not to the degree they are today. To act like that’s what differentiates the two eras is insanity. Watch the transition from the RS to the playoffs, the half court “90s style” seems to return every year and expose the pretenders. Jokic would have been an all star, but a clear tier below the likes of Hakim, Ewing, Robinson; Duncan etc Luka? lol I won’t say anything there I have no vested interest in MJ and yes he was created into a god…but his name is synonymous with GOAT anytime the word comes up, regardless of sport. The only other person I can think of that’s similar is Mohammad Ali
why is playing 8 yrs with breaks harder than 20-25 yrs straight and with deep playoffs runs for most of those years? Thats like opposite bro. The grind Lebron has been on would break 99% of NBA players in fact he is the only one with 22 yrs of star play. He didnt win every year but it doesnt mean he took it easy, he had like a 9 yr run of Finals appearances just think of the wear and tear on your body going to the finals every year for almost a decade. Jordan on the Bulls was like KD in GSW, they are on easy mode thanks to Krause IIRC they didnt even have one game 7. However Jordan never really did anything out of those prime 6 yrs so tbh I see him as a one trick pony.
