Was Big Ben being blocked at the time? It looked like a pretty good attempt by Warner for being blocked by a DB.
Circumstantial evidence. Whether a pick is returned for a TD or immediately tackled has very little to do with the QB. It's all random luck — the position his teammates are in, how well they tackle, etc., etc. Sure, it sucks for his team, but I don't look at it as a bigger mistake simply because of Harrison's runback. It was a bad decision that resulted in an interception, which sucks, but believe it or not, lots of QBs have had that happen to them. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have each thrown Super Bowl interceptions — they must be complete garbage. There's no way in the world anyone without an agenda would look at that as the sole game changer. As bobrek said, the entire complexion of the game changes — more than likely, the Steelers would have been a better team offensively because they would've came out more aggressive, the way they were on the final drive when they were finally behind. The Cardinals offense put them in a position to win the game. Kurt Warner threw for 377 yards and 3 TDs (with only one INT) against one of the best defenses in the history of the game. If you're going to blame them for the loss, you're clueless or have one hell of an agenda. Arizona had the game, but the defense couldn't get it done when it counted. Simple as that.
It was Warner's fault that San Antonio Holmes caught that corner pass when there were 3 Cardinal defenders there.
No doubt the defense shat the bed when it counted, but there's nothing you can say that will sway me from thinking that the pick six was Warner's fault and that it, more so than any other play, cost his team the game. And for all the troll and agenda pushers... I wanted the Cards to win, and I think Warner is a great story and a talented QB, but not HOF worthy (although he's extremely close now).
I do want to point out that his replacements haven't had the same success as him though. Bulger has had a good career, but not had the great seasons that Warner had. Leinhart has absolutely stunk when inserted into the Arizona lineup. He wasn't really bad in his short time in NY with a QB rating of 86.5 and suffered through concussions and hand injuries that led to him being out in St. Louis. Aikman's passer rating for his career was 81.6. Favre's is 85.4. Warner has proven himself to be a good QB. The question is should he be pentalized for injuries, and getting a late start on his career? Gale Sayers is an excellent example of a player in the HOF that put up great numbers while having an injuries derail his career. Sayers only played in 68 games, but was still elected to HOF.
Earlier you stated that: I do not believe Warner is a HOFer. and He did not help his case in this superbowl, IMO. You also state that he is "extremely close now". In your opinion, had the Steelers not scored on their final drive and the Cardinals would have won 23-20, would he be worthy? If not, what would push him off "extremely close" and into the Hall of Fame?
I think he would be selected if the Cards won. Worthy? Based on his peers credentials, probably so. Some people weigh stats more, some people weigh (for better or worse) team success more. He helped his case in the playoffs, not in the SB IMO... I don't think people come away from that game thinking Warner is a rock solid HOFer after some of the miscues he had.
Honestly, I'm curious how you've come to that conclusion. I've read reviews of Warner's play on this board and others, as well as listening to commentary on ESPN and the other media outlets... and you're seriously one of the only ones I've read that thinks he didn't help his case. That's not to say you're necessarily wrong — short of a presidential-type poll, obviously neither of us can prove whether he helped or harmed his case with fans as a whole. But taking away my personal thoughts, the anecdotal evidence I've seen thus far strongly indicates that fans came out of the game impressed with Warner.
Maybe the plays I paid the closest attention to were his bad ones, but I saw a lot of off target balls and really timid play (admittedly I think that Warner was hurt by his skill players being WAY nervous and rattled... sometimes it looked like they were expecting to get hit instead of expecting to catch the ball, wtf) and between him not getting his big 2 involved until it the game was almost out of reach and the absolute dagger in the heart that took points off their total and gave them to the Steelers... I just can't say he earned votes, other than the votes you get from just getting to a SB.
You are right, with the exceptions being that Leinart really isn't a good QB (at least not yet), and Bulger is very injury prone. I never said that I don't think Warner is a good QB. I think he is good. I just don't think he is HOF worthy (even though I think he will eventually get in). When I see you go from all-world to middle of the pack when you don't have elite help at your skill positions, then I tend to think it's the help that made you look all world. Elway, Montana, Moon....I saw them make a lot of plays for their guys. It's the opposite when I see Warner. I see a lot of his WR's making plays for him. In every successful situation that he has been in, I would expect a good QB to excel in that system. The one thing I really do give him credit for that a lot of QB's don't have is his ability to get the ball off when the blitz is coming. And no, it's not his fault that the intro went for 6....but it his fault for throwing that pass. At the goal-line you can't have your QB making mistakes. He didn't see the defender and threw the pick...all completely his fault. Again, if any other QB had done the same we would seriously be questioning his judgement (on that play). Warner has always been prone to turnovers and that was a crucial one. So was the fumble to end the game. As far as the Sayers comparison goes, Sayers career was cut short by injury. It's not like he had some middle of the pack years along the way like Warner did. The same goes for T.Davis once he became T.Davis. With most great players, they don't go from great to normal to great again. IMO, it's not just a coincidence that the help also happened to go from great to normal to great.
I had to pull up this thread. What a freaking performance. The guy is a stud!!!!! There is no doubt he is going to get in. The only question now is will he be first ballot.
Damn time flies. It seemed like just a couple months ago this thread was created. There's no question that Warner should be a first ballot HOFer. He's never had a big name like Montana, Elway, Marino etc and he never will but his story is as good as anybody's. From not being drafted to bagging groceries to getting a chance in arena football and working your way into the NFL and ultimately winning Superbowl MVP and leading your team to a championship??? You kidding me? Sounds like a movie storyline. Add that to his body of work and other accomplishments and he's a sure fire first ballot pick. What's even more impressive is that he's clutch. He takes his game to another level in playoff games.
That's an odd and unfair question. You do realize Warner is a decade older than Rivers right? Philip just entered his prime last year. Warner based on accomplishment but going at this rate Rivers will be better when it's all said and done. But like I said this isn't a fair question right now.
The story line is cute. The actual issue is if Warner is good. He is. Dont know where it ranks but a 99 postseason QB rating. Absolute nails in the clutch. I wouldnt consider him a sure 1st ballot Hall of Famer like Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. Warner's had a strangely unique career. Half his seasons he's Joe Montana/Dan Marino. The other half he's Trent Dilfer. Warner had a 5-6 year string of average seasons. But when Warner has been good he's been excellent. As good as any QB in the game.
