I agree completely, but no matter who it is you can't say take away so and so and look at how they would have done. MJ was the best player on those teams, not the other way around. Take Worthy or Kareem off the Lakers I'm sure Magic and Kareem would not have had the success. In fact Magic and KAreem lost to us in 1981 when we weren't even .500. At least Jordan only lost to teams that had a better record and higher seed than him and each of those teams won it all or were in the finals. When people talk about Jordan being so good, it isn't about that he didn't need help, it is about that when he got it, he didn't lose when being the favorite and no other superstar that is top 20 all time can say that.
And what do you think Kobe's record would have been against the 80's Celtics or the 80's Pistons? Those are the teams that kept knocking MJ out of the postseason, besides the Bucks in his rookie season. Kobe lost twie in a row to the Phoenix Suns....a team that never even made the Finals.
I'll begin by stating i'm a huge Kobe fan, but this question is utter sh:t. I'll convert it to soccer terms, it's like fans debating if Lionel Messi or Andres D'alessandro ( when he was 18-22 yrs old) are better than Diego Maradona. They are the closest thing we have seen to the legend but they are not better than the legend. Kobe is the closest thing we have seen to MJ since #23 came on the scene but he is by no means better than Jordan. IIRC, people have been hyping up everyone from Harold Miner to Grant Hill and Dwade as the next Jordan yet Kobe is the closest thing to MJ in every facet, from his mentality to his game. That does not mean he is better than Jordan. One could just open up the record books and deduce the answer on that basis. This is the kind of thread that makes Kobe haters salivate.
hell no. stop making things up. with the same roster ???? shaq was gone. Rudy was a breath of fresh air, local reporters like him. but it quickly became obvious, Rudy was clueless on defense. the euphemism used for him was that he was a players' coach. in reality, he didn't hold players accountable for their assignments. it was a ship moving without a rudder.
No and its not even a question. Anyone who even considers Kobe Bryant better than M.J. is fooling themselves or just doing it do get a reaction. Michael Jordan was the pinnacle of what an NBA player should be. He played in the era of the greatest players of all time. He averaged 38 points per game in one season. He is the most clutch player of all time. M.J. was above and beyond any normal basketball player. Kobe could carry his jock strap, but not very far. That's not to take anything away from Kobe, who is the game's best player. But M.J.? Please.
On pure skill and talent Kobe wins out he is a better player than Jordan...but no one will be able to touch Jordan's Legacy thats why Jordan will always be the "greatest" player to ever play...people will come close but it cant be done...Jordan's accomplished to much
The answer to this question is NO! But is is damn close - and he's the closest we'll see to MJ, so I'm thankful that I got to watch both of them in my lifetime.
Simple. Direct. Idiotic. No offense Giddy, but the really ridiculous aspect of this question is that the more it is brought up againg people start deflating Jordan and inflating Kobe. The ole political tactic if you repeat it over and over again maybe there is something there. No it wasn't. He and his team was just fortunate the Spurs kept its recent pattern of bottoming out the last 15-20 minutes of each game. Even Phil Jackson basically said he wondered when he was going to show up. This is a good way to think of this question. A real and fair debate should be whether Kobe or Lebron right now is the best swingman, and who is going to end the game recognized as being superior (I'd say close to a draw right now, but I'd hedge on Lebron on a career, he is only 23 after all). The gap between Jordan and the next best swingman (Drexler, Nique, Pippen, Hill, Miller, Richmond?) was so great that tells you something when you see Kobe at his peak more or less in the same company (or at most slightly better) of his contemporaries (Tmac a few years ago, a healthy Wade, and say Lebron now, with AI also in the conversation occasionally). You could never make a legit debate whether another swingman playing against him might be as good or better than Jordan--they were always battling for distant-distant-distant 2nd place. How is Kobe's playoff record without Fisher? I know for a fact he hasn't won a series without him. Point being isn't that Derek Fisher is so key to Kobe's play, it is just that Kobe's best teams have had him on it. True. Actually Wade when healthy IMO had a more similar game, certainly to the younger (pre-1995) Jordan. Relentless to the basket, phenom efficient game inside the arc, excellent leadership and court sense for himself and those around (trust and confidence of teammates, and in turns he knows their strength and weaknesses). In fact their championship year Wade had the most dominant performance in the playoffs by a guard since Jordan. If you break down what he did in the Dallas series both in terms of overall production and efficiency it was just remarkable. Unfortuntaly for Wade it looks like he going to have to somewhat adjust his game to stay healthy--but at his peak year yes he was the most Jordan-like player. Kobe moreso than than the younger Jordan or Wade relies on his jumpshot--and he certainly is more accurate at 3 range than those two. Kobe has more Ray Allen and Reggie Miller in his game than Jordan/Wade. That can be an asset as long as you don't get too happy with it, which Kobe in the past has been. Kobe this year has seemed to progressed in leadership and trust. But we havn't seen the going get tough much yet vs these Lakers. Kobe hasn't replicated Wade's run in 06 just yet.
I don't even understand what "shaq was gone" means. Like I said, Rudy was on pace to deliver the same record PJ did the very next year. With the same roster. Rudy- 04-05 [winning%=56] *through 43 games* PJ- 05-06 [winning%=55] Like I said, I have no clue what you mean bringing up Shaq. He didn't play on either team. Defensively the Lakers held opponents to 45% under PJ and Rudy. No difference in defense. Clueless on defense my ass.
So was George Mikan... for awhile... after he retired. I'm surprised that it's not even close in the opinion poll... I'm even more surprised at some of the hysteria that some of you are capable of because a question was posed. Take your Jordan idols down and polish them before beddy-bye time.
i hear you, but in this game from officials to teammates to the coach to the plays being called, there's so many variables... stats show wilt (or kareem abdul jabbar) dominated, but who did he play against? who were his teammates? yadda yadda yadda would you take him over hakeem? ...didn't think so. and me neither. i'm not saying i would take kobe over mj. what i'm saying is that ability to score, play defense, etc... the skills? it's a tie. all the way. it's whats out side that box score or the PER or the stats that may determine the truly better player. stats won't show this. you could possibly argue that trophies show this(???). as far as the 'thirst' or the 'killer instinct,' the mental will to dominate, lead, takeover, etc? i think it's a very interesting comparison. and by the end of kobe's career, especially if he wins a few rings post shaq... it's a close call. no disrespect to jordan.
this sounds like youre saying no matter what, no matter who, no matter when, how... that there will never be a greater player than micheal jordan. as far as legacy? that is possibly a very true statement. jordan came at a time that changed the league and changed sports. his influence is seen in everything about professional sports. it may be after i'm dead, it could be right now. but i'm pretty sure somebody out there will surpass jordan. and i think because jordan is still so fresh in our minds we're quick as fans to discredit current players who may very well be as good or better. kobe's awesome. and IF... and it's a big IF, but IF he wins a few championships post shaq, there's no reason to not put him right there with the greatest.
For anyone that was around to watch Jordan (not youtube highlights) then it is pretty obvious that he was better than Kobe is. It isn't really that close. I would say Kobe today (in his prime) is as good as MJ was in his last year with the Bulls.
Absolutely NOT. MJ can do it with a girl and can get away with it. Kobe ended up in the courtroom. Well, in terms of this, Kobe is the best. <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mrEdYueahO8&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mrEdYueahO8&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
MJ won 5 mvps, 6 rings, DPOY (which kobe will never win), all-nba 1st team and all-nba defense 1st team for like 10 yrs straight, and he won in an era of great big men, which is hard to do for a perimeter player. dude is the greatest of all time.
