Is JVG Expiring Contract Hurting the ROX Future???

I'm looking at the stats where he's CONSISTENTLY playing 20, 30, even 40 minutes a game towards the end of the season...not in the beginning of the season where he'd play 23 minutes one night - and 1 minute the next night.

I think you have a good enough understanding of basic arithmetic without me having to explain the rest.


It is not unproven that Sam was more NBA Ready - IT'S WRITTEN IN STONE. It's established by his superior pedigree as an all-ACC player for a powerhouse FSU team, and by the fact that he WAS able to come in and be effective as a rookie - he actually DID IT. He was not some guy who has never been to the US who lives with his mom and doesn't speak the language, doesn't know his teammates, is unfamiliar with the American game, and tosses out turnovers like candy (as he has throughout his career) and makes Rafer look like Reggie Miller shooting wise.).

As rookies - Cassell got a tryout, and he flourished by "GAME 4 Sam !!". Spanoulis got a 3-week tryout, and stunk up the joint.

Not only does this prove that Cassell was more NBA-ready....it's why Cassell is an all star, and just a cut below HOF consideration, and spanoulis is a second round draft pick who may not be good enough to make it at this level.

 

All it proves is that you like to read your own dribble.....

V-Span would thrive if given the opportunity that Cassell had......but....he played sparingly and out of position...

Again...play V-Span at the PG, and let's see....

We will have to wait on the rest of the argument for about 10 years to see if V-Span has as good a career as Sam, which would be wonderful.

DD

 

Why the hell are you so confident in V-Span? Are you basing this solely on the World Championships? (where all he did was prove that he still can't shoot).

There's no problem with admitting that he's not ready for the NBA... I don't see anybody here with any credibility saying that he won't ever be an NBA player. He'll get there with hard work on his shooting, along with cutting down the turnovers, and working on playing NBA-calibur defense without the constant fouling that you can get away with in the euro game... but there's nothing wrong with him taking a little longer to actually develop.

Peja took time, Dirk took time, Manu took time, Bargnani is taking time, Boki is still taking time... (and all of these guys had MUCH better euro and pre-NBA pedigrees than V-span did).

Especially when this team is in a win-now mode, we can't afford to toss out guys who aren't ready yet.

 

Nick, I don't think he is ready to lead a team yet, but I do think he lacks a lot of what this Rocket team needs....a fiery leader who creates opportunities for his team.

The main reason I would like to see him play...at least SOME...is to get him acclimated as soon as possible to the NBA game. If he sits the entire year on the bench at the age of 24 and being an accomplished PROFESSIONAL player already, it will be a complete waste of a year and he will still need time to adjust.

Better to get him adjusted NOW than later.....and our team DESEPRATLY needs a backup PG.....why would you let one sit on the bench and rot?

Yes, his shooting needs a lot of work BUT, he is not a 3 point shooter, he is a mid range guy....so why play him camped at the 3 point line? Why not let him create a bit and play to his strengths, and let him work on his weaknesses?

Anyway....it is not about V-Span so much....I just thing that JVG's contract situation is causing an already myopic approach to become even more short sighted.

Why should JVG develop anyone if he knows that he won't be around next year?

I want what is good for the Rockets ....not what is good for JVG.

DD

 

At this same stage (~40 games into the season) in their rookie careers, Devean George's cumulative playing time was about the same as that of VSpan. However, George played 22 games -- 4 more than VSpan, and his minutes were more evenly spreaded out than those of our rookie from Greece. In half of the games George played his playing time was between 7-13 minutes, in two other games he played 15 minutes each. By contrast, VSpan's minutes are extremely polarized: he played 15 or more minutes in 6 games, yet 6 or less minutes in 8 games -- that leaves only 4 games in which he played between 7-13 minutes, the reasonable range of playing time one would expect for a rookie/bench player.

The two different patterns of rookie playing time reflect a great deal of difference in coaching philosophies between the two head coaches: Phil Jackson the zen master knows how to nurture and develop a rookie into an asset for the team, Jeff Van Gundy the biploar short-sighted grumpy stubborn former New Yorker on the other hand treats those rookies of not-his-types like tools, has little tolerance for rookie mistakes even in early stage of a regular season, and does next to nothing to build their confidence.

Sure, but a post season is more than just NBA finals. George was allowed to play for 42 minutes in those playoff series prior to the finals. Did you leave this out on purpose?

LOL, as hideous as Madsen was, he played a lot more games and a lot more minutes than Novak can dream of. Not an evidence in favor of your argument. Besides, Novak was drafted because of one thing, his shooting ability. Before he develops into a more complete player, he should be inserted onto the court when the Rockets' defense game is OK but their offense is stagnant for long stretches. Novak's expected deficiency on defense should not mar his offensive production if he is played properly. So far JVG has done nothing but exposing Novak's weakness to his opponents.

Despite having those veterans on his team, Phil Jackson still managed to give "chumps" like George and Madsen adequate minutes during regular seasons, and managed their playing time far better than Van Gundy.

Only by looking into the game logs can we say for sure whether or not the majority of their minutes are in garbabe time. From my recollection of watching Phil Jackson's Lakers' games in those years, I saw in plenty of times rookies were individually put into the games to play along with starters and/or veterans, and just not collectively thrown onto the court to mop the floor.

Quotes taken out of context are not worth discussion. Besides, Phil Jackson is known for psychological maneuvers with media.

The evidences, numbers, and facts all demonstrate Phil Jackson is a superior coach to JVG in delevoping rookies.

Imbeciles like you only glance over the stats without looking into the finer details behind the numbers.

Knowing you for quite some time, I am a little perplexed by the amount of venom in your post. Did you get kicked out of a Chinese restaurant in New York Chinatown for unruling behavior? Somebody mugged you in NYC subway? Your crack whoring girlfriend dumped you? Or you are just a drunken SAMantha on a bad bout of PMS?

 

Whever Sam can't win an agrument, he resorts to name calling. He can't understand that his is just an opinion, like mine and others, and nothing more, and that there are contrasting opinions out there.

Myopia - meet Sam Fisher !

DD

 

He won't be "camped out at the 3 point line"... teams will play off him and DARE him to shoot... until he proves he can make it.

Name 1 NBA guard who is successful despite having a historically bad shooting percentage? And if there is one, THAT is the career path V-span will have to emulate if he wants to make it in this league without learning how to shoot (btw, you don't need to play in actual games to improve on that... my guess is he's regressing in practice as well).

Also, you're vastly overrating the "he needs to play to get better" angle. Dirk didn't need to play 40 minutes a game during his rookie year to figure out what he needed to work on to succeed. Neither did Peja or any other Euro. AND... if they did actually get playing time, it was because they were either on bad teams, or there weren't 2-3 better players in front of them.

Also, if he's as "professional" as you believe he is, he'll have no problem working on his game as much as possible, and when finally given the opportunity, using it as a showcase.

I also want what's best for the Rockets... I want what's best for them NOW, since when healthy, they have the components in place to win NOW.

 

I agree with most of you points Nick and think we are actually not that far apart, but I do take umbrage with the comment about hisorically bad shooting, because V-Span prior to this year shot very well.

I think the main reason he is struggling this year is that he is being asked to do things which are outside his comfort zone......ie shoot the NBA 3 ball.

DD

 

You act like JVG is going to be homeless and poor if he doesnt get a contract extension. Even if he doesnt come back next year, he will get a TV job and make plenty of money so its not like he is in full desperation mode. Of course he wants to play the guys who give the best chance to win. Right now, avoiding the 7 or 8 seed in the West is crucial to any teams chances of winning a first round series. One or two losses could mean the difference between playing Dal or Pho, vs. SA or Utah which would be much easier matchups.

Also you act like JVG plays no young players. Head, Lucas, and Hayes all have very limited NBA experience and play big minutes. Also just cuz you have a rookie on the team doesnt mean he has to play. Look at JJ Redick, Patrick O'Bryant, Saer Sene, those guys are lottory picks and arent just given minutes.

 

TMAC has got have the limitation on playing time! JVG is over using the guy.

 

Ass hat, he was given the same opporutnity, and he has sucked and been slow to adjust, as anybody who was not a lovestruck idiot would have realized is likely.

I think it's hilarious that you still think he's "out of position"

He didn't play PG for Greece. He didn't play it for his club team. Yet you think his natural position, despite being butterfingers, is PG. How the f-ck do you know this? You're just making it up. You're fabricating this. It's a joke.

Considering that nobody has yet, let's not.

Unlikely at this point.

 

This is all that needs to be said really.

 

Again Sam Fisher proving that Class is not his strong suite......

V-Span is a PG, and the greek national team played basically 2 PGs as starters.....

Can you understand that?

Are you going to vote in the "What V-Span will become thread"

Do you have the stones to go on record, or will you just keep spewing out venomous posts and being rude?

DD

 

translation:wnes = pwned.

LOL, so you think it's easier for a player to get into the flow of the NBA by playing consisten low minute games rather than longer periods? Doubtful. Otherwise, please provide one shred of proof that this is the case. TIA.

This is great. Should I let you in on a little secret? Devean George didn't do sh-t except play mop up duty for veterans on a powerhouse team. And now he's a 7th year mediocre veteran averaging 6 ppg in Dallas.

WHAT the f-k are we even talking about Devean George for? He played almost NO role on the 2000 lakers. He's a marginal player now. What the f-k are you even bringing him up for? He fills a limted, marginal role. Guys like him are a dime a dozen. Shut up already.

Phil Jackson sent rookies Ronny Turiaf and Andrew Bynum TO THE NBDL LAST YEAR, despite having a mediocre squad with zero championship hopes. Then he called out Bynum -in the media - this year and publicly demoted him from his starting spot. In conclusion: You have no idea what you're talking about.

WOW 42 minutes over a grand total of 7 NBA playoff games, at 6 minutes a clip - WOW. Too bad that's less than any other player on the playoff roster

No, the evidence in support, is the fact that Madsen, a first round draft choice, played only a fraction of the minutes that an ARTHRITIC, ANCIENT, SPENT, USED UP player by the name of HORACE GRANT did on that same laker team (and virtually no time when it counted in the playoffs) is what supports my argument?

What supports yours? Crickets chirping? Sorry wnes ca ne marche pas.

Actually Novak has exposed his weakness, which at this point is a little thing called basketball.

He gave them very few minutes, desptie the Lakers were frequently blowing people away and not struggling for their playoff lives, and neither of them ever amounted to anything special in the NBA, and they contributed very little to nothing to the championship teams, which is why neither sniffed the court in the Finals. Why are we even talking about these two chumps?

Wow then you must have been watching the FRACTIOn of games in which Horace Grant, AC Green, and Isiah Rider didn't monopolize most of the bench minutes, because the numbers say that is precisely what happened. I thought asians were stereotypically good at math.

Here's the full context.

This is from another post on who Phil brought in each year in LA:

If you think Phil Jackson is famous for trusting young players you're a complete idiot. End of discussion.

You can keep saying it but it's not true.

It's better than arriving at a conclusion without investigating facts, then getting caught with your pants down like you have in this thread, then having to make the idiotic argument that Mark Madsen and Devean George were key players or something stupid like that.

Because this line of argument about Phil Jackson developing young players is so interminably stupid, so it pains me that otherwise intelligent folks would stoop to it without being dishonest. Accordingly a rain of shame will wash your sins away.

 

No he didn't - he's not a natural PG, because he turnst the ball over too much and drives the lane and tries to shoot all the time. That's why his A/TO ratio is so bad. This has been a constant problem in his career. It's true. You're wrong.

 

He does drive the ball into the lane and goes to the hole, something this team DESPERATLY needs.

So, again, go post in the What will V-Span become, get on record, or are you too afraid to actually make a prediction?

Don't be a wuss.....be a man...sammy boy !!

DD

 

I'm not going to give you the satisfaction in voting in another homoerotic spanoulis thread started by you. The answer is: Less than you say, and not at PG.

 

Wuss !!!

You are afraid of taking a stand.

Typical....you are the first to criticize others, but are afraid of putting yourself out there.


DD

 

No I jsut don't want to propagate yet another stupid thread that you started about your latest pet project.

Having to deal with you in one is enough, thanks.

 

Chicken.........Sam is a chicken...Sam is a chicken !!



LOL - dude you are so fricken easy to read....afraid to take a stand for fear of being wrong.

Take a risk Sam....live a little, don't just criticize......tell others what you think will happen.......

Don't be afraid....it won't hurt to be wrong.......it happens.....Heck...you are wrong so often I figured you would be used to it by now.

Honestly, you have been so STAUNCHLY anti-V-SPan that it would be refreshing to hear what you actually think.

Come on....put yourself out there.

DD