what's this alpha-male star/leader that people keep saying? tim duncan/manu/parker aren't alpha-males. they all love to defer to one another and none of them say get the hell out of my way mentality ala kobe or wade when the game gets tough. orlando right now really doesn't have that type of player either if you see how they play their offense down the stretch of games. what atlanta really needs, from how i watch them in the past 2 playoff runs last year and this year, is really a legit inside presence (chris paul helps obviousy too b/c he's a top 5 player when healthy but that's too much to ask) and joe johnson to just play his game like he did in the reg. season. it's obvious joe cannot play better in the playoffs; that's a fact. but this team will really go to another level if they get a big man. right now, this team really just depends on the fast break for their easy points. in the halfcourt, they're a jumpshooting team who does not get to the line that much at all. having a big man will give them stability on both ends plus opening up space for their guards to penetrate/attack.
t-mac1, It's not about doing the Kobe "give me the ball and get out of my way" type thing. It's about leadership, intangibles, stepping up whenever the bleeding sets in. JJ can't always do that whenever the Hawks go through their patented offensive droughts where they stand around, ISO, dribble out the clock and literally forget EVERYTHING they've had success with. Somebody like a CP3 would be able to step up and take control of the team in that instance. Also, you have to trust me when I tell how bad Bibby is. They took off when they acquired him initially, but he's a statue on both ends of the floor that's really been a dead weight the past two seasons. Not only that but he's not particularly effective initiating the fast break -- something that the Hawks absolutely thrive on. In fact, they might be the most dangerous fast break team in the league whenever the situation arises. Having a legit floor general that can recognize and initiate these opportunities is something CP3 can do blindfolded. As for the big men, the Hawks think they already have that guy in Horford. He's improved his game each season, been borderline dominant at times throughout the year (had that "look" during the Bucks series that got me excited) and collected his first All-Star birth (however illegitimate it may have been). The point is he has the potential to be a top five center within the next year or two if he continues this improvement. Not only that, but Josh Smith improved his play dramatically this year too. The Hawks have the offense and weapons on their starting unit to be a well-above average frontcourt team.
I just want to note that those two teams aren't the best comparisons with Atlanta. The Spurs and the Magic both have offensive droughts like Atlanta. The difference is that those teams are built on defense. They can survive crapola offense because they don't give up many points in general. Like Phoenix, Denver, and Warriors of the past, Atlanta wins by outscoring their opponents. They simply have no fall-back plan when their offense starts sucking. You might as well be asking the Magic or the Spurs what they do if Duncan/Howard keeps getting beat in the paint. Atlanta is basically a true center away from being a top level contender. Too bad they have basically no chance of getting one.
baller4life315, t-mac1, I've enjoyed watching the playoffs thus far, and thought I'd give some attention to Joe Johnson, since he's on a lot of people's radar in free agency. It's difficult for me to see just how good a player Johnson is, because despite how much of what the Atlanta Hawks do on offense may be centered on Johnson, I don't often see enough of a purpose to it. I hate to bring this up, but even when Tracy McGrady was here, you could see the purpose behind the Rockets' offense—McGrady scored or created open shots for people. The players around McGrady were, for all intents and purposes, spot-up shooters, and as such, the team had spacing principles which, in theory, made every Rocket's job on offense not named Yao or McGrady pretty easy to do. Doing it, of course, turned out to be something altogether different, but I'll stay on track.... Joe Johnson seems to have this ability to, in essence, facilitate an offense for the Hawks in the halfcourt. But the team, as its currently constructed, doesn't seem to complement HIM. There are a ton of gifted athletes on that team, and as you mentioned baller4life315, they are particularly fearsome in transition. Not many teams can put five players on a fastbreak consistently and beat you, but the Hawks seem to be able to do that. That's a classic example of a team that's searching for an IDENTITY. Not just knowing what they do well, but how are they going to go about the business of winning games—particularly against competition capable of adjusting and taking away what they do well and forcing them to find other ways to win. What's really odd to me, gentlemen, is how unlikely it seems that their head coach Mike Woodson can figure this out for them. Despite the fact that the Hawks have improved their win totals for four seasons or more, they don't really look any more stable and confident a team as they did a few years ago. The team's currently put together to dominate between the foul lines—in transition, like the Jordan/Pippen Chicago Bulls (particularly the first 3-peat iteration), meaning that they should be suffocating defensively, forcing tempo, creating the pace that so many of those players thrive in. That's my opinion of course, but I could see that working for them a lot more than the soft-shoe they too often seem to do in the halfcourt most of the time. I don't know if Woodson has a philosophy like that or not, but whatever their plan is, it doesn't work often enough to give them any sense of stability and continuity. I see Joe Johnson being able to handle that type of facilitator role, if the team were committed a bit more to pressure defense (those Bulls I mentioned called it their "Doberman Defense"). There are guys all over the court who could take advantage of that, and Johnson seems to have the wherewithal to handle that. But if Johnson is your best offensive player, that it's probably not a good idea to make him the primary playmaker for extended stretches. Because the Hawks don't seem to have a plan in the halfcourt offensively, making Johnson a decision-maker or facilitator doesn't work because there aren't enough players who have the range to give him space to work. I really don't think Johnson lacks mental toughness, guys. He just may not be as good as we all may think he is, despite his responsibilities (which are probably too many for him)....
I wouldn't give Joe Johnson a max contract to be my "beta" dog if my "alpha" is a big man. He lacks aggression and an ability to get off easy shots against playoff defenses. It can go unnoticed in the regular season but when things slow down in the playoffs and scouting reports triple in size, you have to be able to deal with that. I always compared him to Brandon Roy in the past, but I overrated his ability to create and underrated Brandon Roy's "crafty" athleticism. I really don't think it comes down to mental toughness with him, it's just the scope of his game lies as a facilitator like Mrdowe00 said. He could be extremely effective playing off of LeBron or Wade. Any athletic slasher can benefit from a level headed, sit back and take it as it comes wing player like JJ. Marvin Williams is much more explosive than JJ when he's on, but he's so damn inconsistent. Hawks would have been ridiculous if they took Deron or Paul over him.
mdrowe00, Good stuff. JJ can run the standard PnR well which definitely suits the type of athletes the Hawks have up front, but generally his role as a facilitator is limited mostly to fastbreak opportunities outside of that. This is mostly due to his so-so first step which usually results in him having a tough time getting dribble-penetration without a screen. Overall, your analysis was good. The only thing I would add is a shot at my whipping boy, Bibby. One of the many things Bibby sucks at is upping the tempo which usually leaves the burden of running the FB to get transition buckets usually on the shoulders of JJ or Josh Smith. He's COMPLETELY useless defensively -- those familiar with the Hawks aren't surprised when they see 6'8", 240 lb JJ covering somebody like, say, Brandon Jennings. It happens all the time. In essence, the only thing Bibby is good at is spotting up on the weakside and waiting for kickouts if teams are forced to double. An upgrade at the point is absolutely necessary and for all these reasons I've been kicking and screaming for the Hawks to throw the kitchen sink at New Orleans for CP3. Not only would it improve the Hawks dramatically on paper (in theory, obviously depends on the exact deal) but it would also take pressure off of JJ thereby enabling him to flourish in the #2 role. I also happen to agree it's generally not a good idea to have your best offensive player also be your primary playmaker. Well, unless, of course...your first name happens to be LeBron, Kobe or Dwyane. I love JJ to death but that's not even remotely the case.
Jeff Teague should be the starter on that team, imo. I do think Marvin could be used more effectively than he is now. Joe Johnson mentally weak? Shirley you can't be serious...
That Atlanta team, with the amount of talent they have, are by far the most underachieving team in the playoffs, even being in the second round. Joe Johnson is obviously not the leader that can lead a team in the playoffs, he has to be mentally weak. I know that I would not want to build my team around Joe, no matter how great he plays, I wouldn't mind having him as a piece of the puzzle though.
It is not fair to say a player is mentally "soft" , but the thing seems clear is JJ is not a max type player . But he might able to get that contract due to various teams having cap space and need a player like JJ. Hawks are a team that can rack up regular season wins with the talent they have , but in the playoffs i think they lack that "it" factor in order to win games. Hawks are a team that almost totally relies on home court to win games, i was even amazed they won on the road in game 6 vs Bucks.
You know, baller4life315.... ...if I had no idea how good Mike Bibby once was (especially in Sacramento).... ...I'd say you had a personal grudge against the man or something....(lol) And about the Hawks' best player..... ....I think that may be Josh Smith. He does so many things well on both ends of the court...he's improved each season since entering the league out of high school....he understands what he can and can't do well in order to help his team....he's willing and eager to do the dirty work for the Hawks.... ...talk about you garden-variety glue-guy....one of those rare players who can change a game without scoring....I know Atlanta's got the kid locked up.... ...but I would LOVE to have him here....that whole "stretch-four" thing alongside Yao Ming would make some sense, finally.....
You don't think Bibby is pathetic? I'm no Hawks fan and I loved him in Sacramento, but he's pretty bad now. WORSE than Derek Fisher on the defensive end (and that is saying something). Josh Smith definitely isn't better than JJ. If he was the best player on the Hawks they would be a lottery team. I know he's improved a lot but let's not overstate what he is. knote32, Marvin Williams IS mentally weak. He is too unreliable to be anything more than a 7th man for a contender. You can't rely on guys like him. Half the time his pilot light is out while other times you wonder, "Why can't he be like this all the time".
Yes. Roy is often compared to JJ, and they're very similar stylistically, but BRoy thrives under pressure, while JJ kinda wilts.
Okay, okay A_3PO, you win..... Mike Bibby stinks. I admit it. I just don't like speaking ill of the dead.....
BRoy is better at creating off the dribble and is a bit more athletic. Joe Johnson simply isn't as good, which doesn't mean he is mentally weak. He just doesn't have the ability to carry a team very deep into the playoffs.
This might actually be the most accurate reply in this thread lol. I consider JJ to be on the same tier as our very own Kevin Martin...in other words he's just around the 10 mill level instead of the max he's reportedly expecting to get. That Atlanta team is extremely talented, put LBJ, Bosh, DH, Cp3 or Wade on that team and they'd have way more success then they have now.
