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Is James Harden's success in Houston proof Manu Ginobili could have been a star as the lead dog?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by NBAandNFLFan, Apr 3, 2015.

  1. NBAandNFLFan

    NBAandNFLFan Member

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    First off dont get me wrong Ginobili has had a heck of a career, probably going into the international basketball hof when its all said and done because of his work with team Argentina and the Spurs. But something got me thinking last night about the contract decision both Ginobili and Harden made as sixth men leading up to their free-agency. Ginobili chose to continue to come off the bench backing up the likes of Gary Neal and Danny Green and playing behind the shadows of Tim Duncan and Tony Parker, and Harden chose to go to Houston to build his own legacy out of the shadows of Westbrook and Durant

    I mean one of the big nba mysteries for me is could Ginobili have been a Brandon Roy type without the injuries leading a team like lets say the Kings the past decade to perrenial playoff appearances( and maybe the Kings would havent been in the doldrums since the divac, webber, christie era), although Ginobili has been injury prone throughout his career due to his wreckless style of play.. its nothing like brandon roy and his chronic knee issues.

    Why i mentioned Harden in the thread title and not Roy was because, Harden and Ginobili were both 6th man award winners, both have a somewhat similar style of play( although i would argue Harden is stronger and more powerful) while Ginobili in his prime was the better high flyer and more wirey

    Do you think im delusional for making such a claim, and is Harden just on another level than prime Ginobili or do you think Ginobili could produce 26-7-7 type of season like Harden is doing now, if he had a team built for him and around him the past ten years
     
  2. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    I don't think it's a delusional claim. Who knows? Nobody thought Harden would ever be this good, and I'm sure people would think the same for Ginobili.

    I would say that it isn't likely, but possible. As you said, Harden seems like he's much stronger and more durable, and that's a big advantage for being a team's top guy given the workload you take on.
     
  3. NBAandNFLFan

    NBAandNFLFan Member

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    damn cant edit the title.. meant to write

    "Is James Harden's success in Houston proof Manu Ginobili could have been a star on another team as a lead dog?"

    oh well
     
  4. shsu33

    shsu33 Member

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    It's not proof but it'd been nice to see if he could have done it, Spurs might not have 5 rings.
     
  5. napalm06

    napalm06 Fertitta-McNair School of Management
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    Impossible to say. Ginobili played an extremely good third wheel for San Antonio.

    If you put him on a mediocre team where he draws the double teams every time, it's hard to say how his game would translate.

    Although, he is one of the elite masters of flopping, so there's that.
     
  6. Pizza_Da_Hut

    Pizza_Da_Hut I put on pants for this?

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    I think Spurs would have been the original OKC. Adjust to loss of talent by overplaying current talent, injuries, and failure to meet expectations. Pop had a great system, a lot of luck, and management made the right calls. OKC had all those factors, just a cheap ass owner.
     
  7. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

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    Not really. Ginobli wasn't a kid when he entered the league, he was 25 with years of experience in Europe playing basketball and leading his own team (Euroleague finals MVP, Italian league MVP etc.). Ginobli also has a lot of injury issues, despite playing limited minutes (his career high in minutes was only 31). I can't imagine how many seasons he would last if he was expected to play 38 minutes a game, with all the defenses focusing on him night in and night out.
     
  8. Mirri3000

    Mirri3000 Member

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    Ginobli did not take the 3rd wheel easy early on, he knew he was a star. For the most part, he's been their best scorer. But all knew he would be the man if he ever left them.
     
  9. SamFisher

    SamFisher Virtuous

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    No - because Harden is insanely durable and deceptively strong which is a key part of his game whereas Ginobili is fragile, so much so that he couldn't even handle a more reduced load without chronic injury, and not nearly as powerful.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Nook

    Nook Member

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    This.
     
  11. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    During Harden's 2nd season at OKC, I posted he would be a superior version of Manu. The comment was not well-received.

    At no point was Manu an 82-game MVP-caliber player. But he's a warrior who played without fear and brought his A-game to 4 Spurs championship runs. If it weren't for injuries, might have been a couple more.
     
  12. ceonwuka

    ceonwuka Member

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    Interesting question and some posters made great points.

    I forgot Manu was already something of a finished product at 25 when he came over. So that leads me to believe he really didn't have another level to get to. As the lead dog of his own team I could have seen him putting up 22/5/7. I definitely think he would have missed a lot of time with injury carrying that burden and his efficiency would have gone way down.

    I think there is some revisionist history with the way Harden left OKC. Harden would've been ok continuing off of the bench had he been offered the max. He didn't want to play the backup role AND lose out financially. Its pretty nuts that the tax hell OKC assumed it would be in keeping him never really happened as the NBA revenues have gone up significantly each of the past few years.
     
  13. Fefo

    Fefo Member

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    I think the key is durability and i dont think Manu could have done that. His body wouldnt hold up. What i do think is that he can be a top dog on a top team, but thats a different story. In his prime he was a 20/5/5 for the spurs, wich tells u a lot with the system they run ( and playing on championship team, not the orlando magics of the world)
     
  14. CDrex

    CDrex Contributing Member

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    I don't think the two are directly comparable in the strictest sense, but yes, I can see it.

    Ginobili would not have been as successful as Harden will be, and he would not have won as much as he did in actuality. But yes, I think in another universe you can build around an electric, unselfish Argentinian who is an above average rebounder and defender and only really lacks for durability. Maybe not the best player on a title team (which even Harden hasn't proved), but certainly on a playoff team.
     
  15. Fefo

    Fefo Member

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    Manu was the best player on the 2005 championship spurs, wich also tells u alot , coz Duncan was almost prime at the moment.
    I know Duncan took home finals mvp, but it was because at the moment most peopple though it was duncan team, not the big 3 team. But manu played better in that series ( although i will give it that duncan had a really hard matchup with both wallace on him).
     
  16. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Manu was NOT the best player on the team during the whole year, but he was awesome during the Finals. This is what I meant by bringing his A-game at the most crucial times. I wouldn't have had a problem with him being named Finals MVP.

    But if you consider the entire regular season and playoffs, TD was the best player hands down. Not even debatable.
     
  17. pippsux

    pippsux Member

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    Absolutely. Harden's game is just like Manu's to a T. If he had bolted to another team When he was a FA I think he would have had great success individually but maybe not so much with his team.
     
  18. GanjaRocket

    GanjaRocket Member

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    Manu doesn't have the physical traits of harden, so no.

    Just bc they're both left handed doesn't make this a valid comparo
     
  19. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    ginobili was a greater player than t-mac
     
  20. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    I'm going to assume OP works for ESPN.

    Can anyone tell me what this stat line is:

    <table><tr><td width="40">G</td><td width="40">MP</td><td width="40">FG%</td><td width="40">3FG%</td><td width="40">FT%</TD><td width="40">REB</td><td width="40">AST</td><td width="40">STL</td><td width="40">PTS</td></TR><tr><td>69</td><td>20.7</td><td>.438</td><td>.345</td><td>.737</TD><td>2.3</td><td>2.0</td><td>1.4</td><td>7.6</td></TR></table>

    Ginobody's statline at age 25
     
    #20 heypartner, Apr 3, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2015

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