I don't know why people keep discussing whether or not team x should go after him or not. He is not a free agent this year. He still has one more year on his rookie contract and the Thunder have the option to extend him next season, which they will.
I've said this many times before but people don't seem to get it. Nobody else can talk to Harden until the summer of 2013 and even then he will be restricted.
compared to other max shooting guards in the league I don't feel like he stacks up... with any of them. I'm not trying to insult him, he's fantastic in his role. I feel like we'd need to see him match up with starters for longer than 5 minute 4th quarter stretches with WB and Durant on the court. Good basketball player with a good head on his shoulders but not in the same category as other max SGs in this league. In terms of skill and athleticism I don't think he stacks up with even a guy like Joe Johnson who many thought wasn't worth a max.
Kobe, Wade, Manu (very debatable). All are old. Harden's the best young SG out there. He will get the max somewhere. SG position is one of the weakest in the nba overall.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UgoOS1FGcmw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Manu Ginobili 2.0.. so yes( but Harden might just stay in OKC for less money)
^ to be fair, both did think Harden was the better player, but that Ibaka was better value and harder to replace, in the sense that there are very few Ibaka's, and somewhat more Harden's. It sounds strange, but is somewhat true. Harden, Ginobili, Wade, Kobe. Then in the next tier you have Gordon, Curry, Martin, etc. Ibaka is comparable to basically Tyson Chandler and defensively to Howard. Maybe include Noah, but Ibaka is better defensively. They noted that teams try all the time to draft Ibaka like players - ala Stromile Swift - but more often than not it doesn't work out. But I still think it's only somewhat true. Harden has gone from the second tier of SGs (if that), to clearly in that first tier. He is only limited by role and playing time. His efficiency is off the charts. He takes and hits clutch shots. He has a sweet beard. He fills the rest of the stat sheet. Both players are playing great in this series, but Harden's stat line is crazy. He's shooting 50% overall and 58% from 3. He's averaging almost as many rebounds as Ibaka. He's dishing out nearly 4 apg. 1.4 spg. Consider Manu Ginobili is playing out of his mind, and Harden is playing better. Ibaka's might be tough to find, but Harden's are the piece you need first. That said, their analysis is right for the Thunder. Durant, Westbrook and Harden are both attack from the perimeter offensive threats. They are somewhat duplicative in that sense. Not that the Thunder wouldn't want all three, and not that the Thunder might still prefer to keep a Harden over Westbrook (I would, but the Thunder are "stuck" with Westbrook imo)... the Thunder may have to make this choice. Harden can't even start for them. Not that he should, they are playing it right, but that highlights the issue. They are thin on the front line, and would be ridiculously thin without Ibaka.
So seriously Tmacsterful, who doesn't he stack up against? Who are your top 5 SG's???? He's only 22 and will continue to get better.....
I didn't say top 5. I said max deal shooting guards... max players this year were(in order of highest paid): Kobe Byrant Joe Johnson Dwayne wade Brandon Roy(amnestied, when healthy much better still) and like you said and I bolded, he will continue to get better. That doesn't mean a couple years from now he won't be a max player but at the moment I don't think he's worth the 12+ mil a year.
Just because he's arguably a top five shooting guard does not make him a max player. It's like arguing the center position, name five players at the center position that are worth the max deal. On a team with no other stars he could be a max player. At the moment I don't think he's ready to be a number 1 option and that's what I would expect from a max player. Compared to max guards in the last decade does he really stack up to guys like Kobe, Wade, Vince, T-mac, Chris Paul, Rose, Westbrook, and so on?
Nice dodge. I never said Harden was a max player. You said, "compared to other max shooting guards in the league I don't feel like he stacks up... with any of them" All I asked was that you name all these max, (1) current, (2) SGs that are better than Harden, i.e, the ones he doesn't "stack up with". VC & McGrady are in the dust bin and CP3, Rose and WB play the point. I'm waiting. You can skip Kobe and Wade as they are obvious.
Manu will turn 35 next month. Harden will be 23 in August. If both guys were unrestricted this summer, who in their right mind wouldn't prefer Harden? At the least, Harden is already Manu's equal. Midway through his rookie season, I started comparing Harden to Manu and predicted he would be better. People forget that Manu was 25 years-old when he started his NBA career. Harden was 20. After his 2nd season, I was pretty sure would be better at 25 than Manu would ever be in his career. This thread reminds me of a two-year debate I had with a guy here on whether Harden was a "bust" in OKC. My head still hurts from hitting the wall in frustration.
Sometimes people aren't very smart. I try to pick my battles around here because people get too attached to certain players.
I haven't read through this whole thread, so forgive me. Bad time to ask? Curious: anyone who thought "yes" before changing their mind now?
Not a max player, but he's not as bad as he's playing in the finals. He's just young and probably nervous out there. He played great against the Spurs.
