But wait...the hype was so much more than that for Bush. That's why it feels like he's falling so far below expectations compared with others. This guy was labelled the best prospect in the past 25 years. He was compared to Gayle Sayers. He was supposed to be instant offense. Instant impact. That's what we were all told. By scouts. By the ESPN "experts." By everyone. When someone disagreed with this, they were met with article after article telling us that Bush was the next Sayers and we must be idiots for doubting it. Expectations were created for Bush. That's not his fault, but he certainly profited from those expectations. He hasn't come anywhere close to where people thought me might be even at this early stage of his career.
It apparently is fairly complicated, because you missd MadMax's entire point. He didn't say Elway sucked and Vince sucked, so Vince = Elway. He made the point that top QB prospects generally suck their first year. Vince is performing exactly as a top QB prospect generally does - there's nothing surprising about him, nor does his performance raise any concerns (especially given that, beyond just a regular top QB prospect, he was considered raw anyway). Bush, on the other hand, is having nowhere near the impact that is expected of the top running backs. That *IS* a cause for concern. Vince and Leinart are performing about to expectations. Bush is not. It's that simple.
Holmes rushed for 1000 yards and 7 TDs his rookie season. Johnson got only 20 carries his rookie year. LT was only "good" his rookie year? He had 1200+ yards and 10 TDs. You're going to have alot of trouble finding a RB who was given an oppurtunity then failed his rookie season, then ended up being one of the best backs in the league.
oh yeah he sucks b/c he only leads in completion%, 4th qtr TD's, is the 2nd only to Vick in QB rushing, and he only lead the league for the 1st 6 weeks in QB Rating... Carr is out of this world and this is b/c he has a pretty good line, can ya'll imagine how good he would be if he had the best O-Line in the league, it took a few years but now he kicks ass and in a few years when Peyton retires and the colts become the new Titans the Texans will have complete control of the division(with all our early draft picks). But most importantly Vince doesn't trust that his WR will make a play for the ball that why he runs(and he's selfish).
Carr is "out of this world??" he's leading the league in 4th quarter TD's?? is there a source for that?? because he's thrown for a grand total of 2 TD's and 4 INT's in his last 6 games. you might be right, because he kicked ass in trash time vs. the Colts and Skins, early on. he's the greatest QB i've ever seen at completing 5 yard passes, though. and he's a monster at racking up completions for as few yards and points as possible. i'll give him that.
Nationally, for Bush the expectations were higher, you are right. But right here in the city of Houston, VY was already in the NFL hall of fame. VY got just as much or more hype from sportsradio 610 & the Houston media than RB got from ESPN. There were callers on 610 and posters on this board who said VY would come in and make an immediate impact because he's a leader, he won in high school, and college and Rich Lord said he'd be in the hall of fame, and he guaranteed it.
j Yes I would call that "good". Compared to what he is doing right now. He already has 22 TDs. LT has gotten stronger over the years, I think his speed, vision, and hands have all been consistent, but this year he's breaking more tackles. Bush's main problem right now is that he goes down on the first hit, one reason why is YPC is so low. If he works on his strength in the next few years and starts breaking tackles then the sky is the limit. And no i'm not comparing him to LT. LT might be the best ever. Its not a stretch to say that right now... (Thank god LT is on my fantasy team)
Um, ok. And then there were EVEN MORE people on this board who said that VY would need a season or two or three before being able to truly make his mark on the NFL. So, what's your point?
If VY is sucking into year 3, I'll say it looks like I missed the boat on this one. But history shows that top level QBs almost always struggle. Marino, unlike Elway, went to a respectable team. Big Ben lasted until the teens and then went to a regular playoff team coming off an unusually bad year. I for years have thought Ben was overrated and we finally are seeing it with a weaker team (in fact I thought Rivers was the best of his class, and he is now looking like it, although he also benfits from a great cast). Aikmen, Steve Young, McNabb, Alex Smith, Eli Manning, countless others of the best prospects, they all immensly sucked when pressed into action their rookie NFL years. VY has probably done more good and less bad than most, but I'll agree it certainly doesn't mean he will be great. I think he will be, I have thought this for some time, but we have to wait and see. Sorry, but it just doesn't take the top 3 type RBs that much time to get an indication. Reggie Bush looks no closer to Earl, Dorsett, Faulk, LT, Sanders, Dickerson through his 1st half season than he does to Ki-Jana Carter or Blair Thomas. In fact the other 3 rook RBs taken in the 1st (all late 1st) already look more promising as regular NFL tailbacks than Reggie Bush--Marouney, Addai, and Williams (finally healthy, over 100 yards last week). Maybe Reggie Bust he will learn and adapt, but the early signs are very dissappointing. Much more so than MW or VY.
Why does Reggie Bush need time? All he does is run flare patterns and screens out there. Elway's problems stem from a conservative coach and his immaturity his first few years. Marino was in an offense that featured him and played with Duper and Clayton. And was Ben R. really that great as a rookie? Or was he just handing off?
I'm one of VY's biggest fans here. Yeah, I think the Texans made a colossal mistake valuing David Carr over Vince Young. I think Vince Young will be a great QB one day, in the NFL. But I thought he'd be brought along like Steve McNair. Very slowly. Not playing much at all. He's out there starting games right now. His numbers look like a lot of rookie QB's...some of whom are now Hall of Famers. Others who didn't last 3 seasons in the NFL. In fact, I suggested that having VY would buy this franchise a second honeymoon, as people would be more forgiving of losses if they felt they were actually developing a young QB. Rich Lord didn't say he'd be a pro bowler his first year. No one did. No one said he'd have his team in the Super Bowl in year one. They're talking about career. Even his biggest supporters weren't talking instant impact.
He was good at throwing as well. 14 games started 2621 yards 17TD 11int 66% completion percentage 98.1 QB rating Then he won the superbowl the next year with similar numbers. They aren't great numbers, but they are pretty good. Granted he had a good offensive line, a good running game, and a few good receivers.
He needs time in traditional running back sets and situations before we can really judge his true RB abilities. The saints are using him the way they need to right now. I would not be surprised to see them trade Deuce next year and let RB be their traditional running back. At that time I think we can all evaluate his abilites more accurately.
well i cant start threads but about this upcoming draft, i was looking at mock drafts for 2007, lets assume the texans get a 3-7 pick in draft, i think they should not take peterson (to top heavy 6'2 to be a running back,and injury prone) they should trade the pick to new england for NE two 1st round picks something like 20,23 ...there are 2 shutdown cb's(landry) in the draft and 2 shutdown safeties (griffin) they should get 2 of these four to solidify the defense for YEARS...if this team had mario,demeaco,dunte,griffin,and a shutdown safety this defense would be UNREAL. i originally wanted a rb but i dont like peterson or lynch.....maybe we can get a rb in the second round. ..this may sound nuts but if the texans have a 1-2 pick i would want calvin johnson (2 johnson recievers LOL) ...it would be like having andre johnson/jerry rice on the same team...best receivers instantly in the NFL. football isnt like nba, you need a bunch of "good" players(new england) instead of strapping the cap with a few highpriced top picks .....
And a great defense. Put all those things together and it makes it so the QB basically has to not screw things up. In fact Big Ben won a superbowl the way Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson won superbowls. Big Ben actually had some very bad games in both his playoffs that his team won despite his poor play. He hasn't proven himself to be a great QB by the wildest stretch. He has shown he is a pretty good QB under the right circumstances and does have some talent, I'll give him that.
I disagree to an extent - he was pretty damn good in the playoffs last year, minus the Superbowl. They had virtually no running game in two of those games, and he carried them offensively. That said, he's certainly the exception rather than the rule. He's one of the few QB's that has excelled early. Remember, that team was terrible the year before him (6-10), and started out 1-1 his rookie year. He then went 14-0 as a starter before losing to the Patriots in the playoffs. Included in that were wins against a 6-0 Philly and 6-0 Patriots. That kind of stuff is not a fluke. He certainly has a ways to go still, but he's made a lot of big plays in there - he hasn't just been a steward of a good running game the whole time.
