I really don't have VY. I just hate that people think he's the greatest thing ever because he's a good runner. He won the rose bowl single handidly twice with his legs. Two unbelievable performances, probably two of the best in college football history. But that isn't going to work in the NFL, he has to be able to throw the ball and from what i've seen, he can't. Just like Bush running to the outisde and dancing around is not going to work in the NFL either. I know I give people a hard time about bush and young (especially bush, but its just too easy to get the UT fans all bent out of shape so thats why I do it mainly), but the bottom line is what those two did in college is NOT going to work in the NFL. They will both be busts unless they learn to adapt. With that being said, from what i've seen so far in the NFL, i'd take Leinart over both Bush and Young in a heartbeat. Without even thinking twice.
Did you see how atrocious the Titans were with Kerry Collins? -Fitz or not the Cardinals are much more talented. The Cards defense is better too, Tennessee's defense is the worst in the league right now. I guess you didn't watch Leinart the last 2 games, the last game he had both Bolden and Fitz. The knock on Leinart is that he has ordinary tools. At best an average NFL arm and average athleticism. Palmer is a much more physically talented individual (much superior arm), as is Young (stronger arm in addition to special athleticism). I give you Leinart right now is the better pro-style QB--he does have the reads, knowledge and accuracy if given time to throw. But as we saw with Kerry Collins, Tenn is an aweful team and aweful offense with a standard pro style offense. I don't think Tenn would have a 2nd thought about sticking with VY over Leinart, Leinart may not be much better than he will ever be and VY has enormous growth potential and has done some positive things for an inept team.
He can be great because he can run and throw. It is misleading to say VY couldn't throw. He threw for more yards in the Rose Bowl than he ran for. Over the season he threw for 3x yards than what he ran for, and he was at the top of the NCAA in efficiency (ahead of Leinart even). His last years' passing numbers in yardage and/or efficiency dwarfs the best year from McNabb or Vick in college, and at least one of those guys has become a fine NFL QB. Now whether he becomes a great passer in the pros is another question, but there have been lots of great passer-runners int he NFL (Cunningham, Culpepper, S. Young, McNabb, McNair) and nothing from VY so far this season looks much different than the mix of positive and negative plays in those other guys 1st NFL experience (except maybe Culpepper, who got to get integrated in the NFL slowly in a completely loaded offense yet in the end is probably the worst of the bunch).
At this point, VY would be doing much better on the Cardnals than Leinart, I agree with that because with their offensive line, he could at least run and make something happen. But in the long run, i'm building my team around Leinart, I don't want an escape artist because of my offensive line issues, I want a quarterback. Last week they had Fitz, but he left the game early, the week before that they had a bye, and the week before that, Fitz didn't play. So no, he didn't have Fitz the past two games.
To be honest, I didn't think anyone in the draft was worthy of the #1 pick; because noone was a sudden impact NFL player. VY & RB both played behind better offensive lines than the Texans have now & RB needs a fullback to pound the inside run, which the Texans still don't have. MW was as good a 2nd choice as any & has made great strides on the d line. His progress has been aided by the progress of Ryans. I was ok with MW at #1. However half way through the season, I'm really pleased with the Texans overall draft picks.
Your best post on this topic. Well done. (I'm aware you're not asking for my commentary.) HA! Thanks for admitting it! "I know Bush might not be better than Young; I just like pushing your buttons." Awesome. Agreed. I think some of that applies to Leinart as well.
I'll take the escape artist who can scramble to throw or scramble to run a la Stauchbach, S. Young, Elway, McNabb, McNair over a stand still QB any day. Now obviously it is a reach to expect any college prospect to be an Elway, but it is not that far off to think VY could be like a taller-faster-quicker McNabb or McNair, basically a Culpepper infused with a warrior's heart. Of course like these guys VY will need to learn to best channel his athleticism for the pro game (more scrambling to throw versus scrambling to run and forcing fewer plays). This is a common process. I don't agree at all. I think you had 3 picks who could be #1 picks on most drafts based on their supreme raw talent. Much more top heavy draft than Carr or Alex Smith drafts for instance. In fact Leinart might have gone #1 the year before over Smith, and went all the way to like 10 last year. You also had excellent running back prospects like Marouney, Addai and Williams (yes I know he is off to a slow start, but I think he will be very good like the other two) falling in the late 1st, a very good indication of the overall stocked draft.
But it's kind of backfired on you. Your obsession with Bush is even more obnoxious. I think the UT fans have a pretty firm grasp on things. Vince is a work in progress and he looks better every week, imo. did you goto atm or ou? Or do you just grow tired of UT being good in every sport? I wouldn't ride this Bush thing too much longer. Just root for any player except for Vince. So, start rooting for Mario as well.
I went to UH, class of 2000. This is why I don't like UT fans, arrogance. Thanks for helping me prove my point. And for the record, UT fans didn't start getting arrogant until their football team won the NC, when it comes down to it whether people admit it or not, football is really all that matters in the state of Texas. Who cares if they have a good softball, baseball, basketball or lacross team. I only started disliking UT & their fans & their bandwagon fans last year when they finally beat OU, and finally won a national championship even though they had the best players and best recruiting classes year after year. I still don't think Mack Brown is a good coach, he has done less with more than any coach IMO. Thankfully he had Vince's legs last year to bail him out & Okalhoma had a down year, AP was injured and now all of the sudden UT is the greatest thing ever and even the fans this year fully expected them to win the NC again like they are some super dynasty that everyone is just supposed to bow down to and move aside for which is laughable to me. I know many others feel this way, Fatty Fat is one I know of but i'm really the only one who speaks out against it, but i'm outnumbered because somehow on this houston rockets forum in the city of HOUSTON their are more UT fans than UH or any other fans or it least it seems that way. Maybe there are just as many UH, A&M fans, etc here but maybe they are just more humble and don't speak out so much and have more class than arrogant UT fans, so it isn't as noticible.
I guess you have no idea how hard it is to win a National Championship, it takes more than just having good players and good recruiting classes, just ask Miami, OU, Florida, FSU, Georgia, Tennessee. All of these teams had Top 5-6 ranked recruiting classes and none have really come close to a NC lately. Also...maybe you should do a little research before you post. Mack has only had a #1 ranked recruiting class once since he has come to UT, consequently, it was the class that won the NC. That's fine if you don't think Mack Brown is a good coach, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but Mack has a NC, a BCS bowl, and a Big 12 Championship on his resume. There maybe 4-5 active coaches who have this type of resume. Who was asking anyone to bow down and move side? I dont' get that. But even up until last week, we were actually in pretty good position to defend our national championship. And maybe if it weren't for an injury to Colt in the first series, we would be well on our way. Not too shabby considering we were starting a freshman QB and were w/o VY (who you claim was the only reason we won last season). What would UH or A&M fans be arrogant about and exactly what would they be humble from? Trust me, there are a ton of UH and A&M fans on this board, its just that the ones that do speak out (like yourself) seem to be more obssessed with UT than there own schools. If you actually think they have more class than other fans, maybe you should think twice. Why don't you start threads about UH's big game vs. Memphis this weekend, why doesn't A&M fans start threads about their game with UT or about their Top 10 ranked basketball team? Like I said, you are so obsessed with UT that it is hilarious, you talk more about us than about your own school which is in Houston on a Houston board. Now that is laughable. Or maybe you're just bitter that you didn't get into UT, it's understandable. Have a good one jgreen91.
Loved Jack Pardee, Andre Ware, David Klingler, and that whole Run-and-Shoot deal back in the 'days. Nicer than that (*much* nicer), is Guy V. Lewis (sp?), Dream before he was "Dream", Clyde, and Phi Slamma Jamma. It's insane that Guy Lewis (sp?) is not in the hall of fame.
Why be an atm or uh fan? What's the allure? And we beat OU w/o Vince and OU with AP. They were the favorites to win the conference in the preseason, and who knows, they (OU) can still win it. I don't think you can really use the word class with atm in the same sentence unless it's "ATM fans have no class." And football may really be the only thing that matters according to you, but we're posting this on a basketball board, so maybe you're wrong there. UT fans have always been arrogant. Natl. champions or not.
lol, UT has a great football program but let's not get carried away thinking it takes Ivy League caliber intelligence to get in.
Dont they have a top 10% or 25% rule or something like that? Tons of deserving students from top private schools cannot get in because of that. For instance, Kinkaid high school in Houston...90% of the kids from that school should be able to go to UT, but only a small percentage do because they werent "ranked" high enough...so, they go to great schools like Emory and Vanderbilt instead of UT. You dont have to have Ivy league intelligence to go to UT, but if you go to a competitive high school, you have a better chance of getting into a top 25 school in the country over UT.
If the statement is accurate, it's not arrogance. I believe there were some articles last year on the quantity of winning sports programs at UT. Would you prefer fake humility?
Then you haven't been watching him. He improves some every week, and he still is a running threat (nearly 6 yards per over the last 6 weeks). He's not just 'a good runner'. With his freakish 200 yards rushing, his 30 of 40 for 267 yards in the Rose bowl was not 'nothing'. His refusal to quit when down shows character and confidence and something the Texans are sorely in need of. UH fans may not be aware of how much VY can improve, but UT fans saw incredible growth and maturation in VY from his freshman year. He will be outstanding.
Cohen, is my deduction from your posts that you're not happy with the Texans' #1 pick correct? I see you wanted Vince Young. So did I, but I don't agree that he is "improving" every game, especially today. Are you saying that today his 101 yards and 1 TD passing plus 49 yards rushing was an improvement? I think it was decent to below average.
I didn't see the game, so some may have been dropped passes, but he was also 8/22 passing... so the completion rate is still pretty low.
