Is Duncan the most undisputed G.O.A.T at his position?

Above

 

This is the problem I keep trying to point out. There is really no clear cut differentiation between a PF and a C. If the difference is about back to the basket or facing the basket, then there are only a handful of pure C. Heck, even Hakeem can't be categorized as a pure center.

And there are those "centers" like Okur who almost never play at the low post offensively. Are they centers or power fowards? In fact, Sabonis in his NBA days seldom played at the low post on offense. What was he?

 

What are you talking about Lakers had better supporting cast?

If I'm not mistaken didn't the Spurs win back in 1999 and then failed to defend the title in 2000 when the Lakers won? Spurs championship roster was still intact with Duncan, Robinson, Avery, Elliot, Kerr, Porter, Elie, Daniels and Rose.

Do you remember who they lost to in the 1ST ROUND?
Jason Kidd and the freakin Phoenix suns in the 1st round. You call that a title defense?

Next year in 2001 they get swept by Lakers.

2002 Duncan wins MVP and again they lost to Lakers in the 2nd round. Makes you wonder Dirk is not the only sad little regular season only MVP.

2003 they finally get over the Lakers but when the Shaq-Kobe dynasty comes to an end.

2004 nice title defense by dropping game 6 to the Lakers once again after the Fisher .4 miracle.

2005 with Shaq and Kobe marriage finally over and both living 300 miles apart, the Spurs sneak in another title.

2006 Defend the the title once again by losing to Mavs.

Look you can defend Duncan all you want but he never got it done against Shaq in his prime. I know they both play different positions but Shaq was the best big man for Duncan to challenge and yet he never stood his ground against Shaq.

All I said was the players back in the 90's had to play against one of the greatest dynasties of all-time the Chicago Bulls and MJ. Duncan can't even win against a smaller dynasty like the Lakers so how the hell could he compete against the Bulls?

To me Duncan and the Spurs won their rings in between dynasties and they can never successfully defend their title against anyone. They win a ring and then next year they get bounced from the playoffs.

Duncan is not the GOAT no matter what people will have you believe. This whole GOAT thing is a scam by ABC and their announcers desperately trying to hype their pathetic broadcast hoping people would watch such a lame Finals match.

 

Who would you rather have at PF, Kevin Garnett or Tim Duncan. now if you even thought for a second there, then you should take Tim Duncan out of the GOAT category. I honestly think that if you switched Tim with Kevin you would get similar results. thats not a knock on Tim in any way, but thats what he is a hall of fame player, plain and simple. Not the greatest of all time but a hall of fame player.

 

i'll say karl malone, but you cant go wrong with duncan

 

Agreed. I'd also argue that Duncan isn't facing the same level of competition those guys did. I really think the NBA has been in decline for quite some time.

Look at the teams the Spurs had to get through this season to make the Finals.

The Nuggets, despite Carmelo and AI, aren't a great team. They're good, but not great. I don't think much explanation is needed here.

The Suns best player is Steve Nash (and while we're on the topic of Steve Nash, I think this guy is irrefutable proof the NBA has declined. When this guy is the MVP two years straight and guys like John Stockton and Isiah Thomas never won a single MVP award - are you serious?) . Steve Nash has been pretty great with the Suns, but I find it difficult to consider him any sort of all-time great because while he was always a pretty good guard, he wasn't even a true star until the last five years or so. His career is similar to Chauncey Billups in that regard. Both of those guys weren't anything too special in their early days while guys like Stockton, Payton, Jason Kidd and Kevin Johnson were still playing good basketball. Now they're suddenly superstars. As for Amare Stoudamire - he's no better than Shawn Kemp at this point - and I'd take those Sonics teams of Payton and Kemp over these Suns teams any day of the week. Hell, while we're at it, I'd take those Suns teams with Barkely and KJ over this Suns team too. Especially the one where Nash was their third string guard. Marion is solid but his game is also flawed - that's why the Suns are willing to part with him. The rest of that team is all system guys.

Then the Utah Jazz? Yeah, they knocked us out, but after our top three players our team SUCKS. The Jazz's best players are Boozer and Deron Williams. Those guys are solid players but they're a FAR cry from Stockton and Malone.

And on top of all that - this years MVP is the worst MVP in the history of the league. We all know that's true. And while we're at it, that whole Mavericks team just isn't that good. Dirk could not have been a superstar in the Hakeem era NBA. Josh Howard wouldn't have been considered any better than somebody like Vernon Maxwell and Jason Terry? Does Mahmoud Abdul Rauf ring any bells? Hell, I think he might have been better than Terry. The Mavericks aren't that good. They're just better than most of the crappy teams in the league today.

I really think the league over extended itself in expansion. There just isn't a big enough pool of top notch athletes at the height NBA players need to be. They ought to drop about four of the teams losing money - but instead? They're talking about further expansion. Great!

 

You arent a very bright person. DUNCAN MISSED THE 2000 PLAYOFFS DUE TO AN INJURY. YOU DO REMEMEBR THAT DON'T YOU?

Well hopefully we sneak to number 4.. Now your all over place about Duncan not being the greatest. SO now you say because e got Snaq before and after his prime. He got an old Lakers and since they haven't repeated proves he's not the best PF of all time. So please tell me who's the best PF of al time. Let's count the things you don't consider. Multiple MVPS, Finals MVPS, inability to repeat, multiple championships, his teams have more rings than the Bird's 80 celtics (who didn't win consecutive championships).Ratings also play into your reinforcing your position that DUncan isn't the best PF all time.
The Spurs are'nt a dynasty they only won 4 in between actual dynasties..
And finally ABC is ust calling him the best of all time because of low ratings.

 

you lost me at calling a 67 win mavs team as not being that good.

 

They couldn't have won 67 games if they weren't playing against teams that are all weaker due to the diluted talent level in the NBA today. That's why they can be knocked out in the first round in a best of seven series. They just aren't that good. Their depth is probably as close to the old good teams as any team in the NBA, but they don't have a real star.

 

are you arguing that duncan isn't the greatest player of all time or isn't the greatest power forward of all time? nobody thinks duncan is the greatest player of all time. atleast i hope not. it's not even close.

i agree with your sentiment that the spurs in general have played inferior competition, but duncan does/will have 4 rings. i don't rank mchale up there as high as malone and barkley, so duncan's next best at position have zero rings combined. i think it's a pretty safe argument that duncan is the best player at his position ever, despite a watered-down league.

 

You people are crazy to even bring up Mchale in this conversation!!

 

tim duncan is not the goat at his position... that is the dumbest thing i ever heard imagine him playing against wilt,bill russel,hakeem,patrick ewing,even bill walton all of them would make him look like a clown...cant forget about yao

 

I dont see why not, he was a better defender than anyone at his position and his offensive numbers were comparable to anyones other than maybe Malone. The best INSIDE PF of his closest competitors, hes got the rings to back it up.

Sure he was drafted into the PERFECT situation but the man got it done plain and simple.

 

If you consider Duncan a PF, then I could also say Hakeem was a PF/C too. If you are speaking of both players in the same breadth, then I would put Hakeem a notch above Duncan.

 

may be you dont watch alota basketball but none of the players you mention are power forwards but instead centers so you cant compare any of them to duncan

 

I think Charles or Karl would have won a ring with any of the spurs teams that won especially considering the era they won all of theirs in.

 

Ugh, what the hell is a GOAT?

 

Exactly. Thus the whole question is somewhat misleading, or minimum an unimportant one, asked to artifically inflate Duncan. Hakeem would have been a better power forward if he happened just to start games at PF--which is what Duncan does. Hakeem is quicker, had more range on his jumpshot, basically could play PF better than Duncan (center too of course). You could have easily called Sampson or Thorpe the center, and Dream the PF, if you wanted to, just to ensure Hakeem was the GOAT at something. But to not compare both Hakeem and Duncan to Wilt, Kareem, Russell, etc, is missing the REAL question. Further, in truth Duncan plays more center minutes than PF minutes, especially true in playoff time.

So the REAL, more appropriate, question is how does Duncan stack with the best of the bigmen of all time and the the best of the players of all time? Besides, do we always say the best players transcend position? Among bigmen Duncan is in the top 6-10 range. Among best ever players, probably top 15.

And I think because of his hardware, he deserves a nod over Malone and Barkley and the other players who started games at PF for the most part (all 3 are solidly ahead of McHale by the way--and you could probably bring up Petite and some other older players). But in truth I really doubt there is much of a difference, and I believe had SA had Barkley or Malone instead they would have won most of the same rings they had with Duncan. Further Malone was a very good defensive player. Not Duncan level, but then Malone was more of a force offensively. And Charles at his peak probably was the best offensive power forward in history in terms of scoring and breaking down defenses, unlike Duncan or Malone or McHale he didn't need other players to feed him the ball to start breaking down opponents. Put Barkley in his prime with the Spurs defensive squads and they would be winning titles today easy.

 

Greatest
Of
All
Time

 

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No Hakeem and Yao are dont they have alot of the same moves???