Iverson looked great because was always the #1 option. The opposite can be said for players that are good but don't get the minutes to show it. Those guys' stats will never reflect their talent--where as guys like Iverson (and more recently Love) look amazing because their teams are terrible and rely on them to go off every night. Iverson could've averaged 50pts a game and never won a ring with the trash he was playing with. That makes him hard to rank as a great player...not saying he wasn't. Just makes a comparison to a guy like Gary Peyton or John Stockton that much harder to sell.
So Magic's being much better isn't a factor? The fact his teams improved immediately upon his departure have nothing to do with it? Iverson didn't have better teammates because noon wanted to play with him. I respect him for what he was able to do at his size though.
CP3 never even made it to a conference finals. His team gets sweep all the time in the playoffs. Overrated.
I forgot about him.. And I watched Hoop Dreams well over 10 times.. Thomas is a legendary Charger to Piston.
I feel like you missed that I wasn't standing up for Iverson...I don't think he should be in the discussion for top 5 PG ever at all...maybe top 10. BIG maybe. Now that you mentioned it...can his ***** attitude be taken into account as well? That knocks him out of any discussion of greatness whatsoever.
The post game was never a particularly high efficiency game, but with hand checking and all that, the perimeter game was worse. The rule changes not only made the perimeter game more efficient, it simultaneously made the post game less efficient.
I forgot about this man too. As much as he wasn't that great of a Playmaker he we was still considered a PG even though he played most of his career as a SG. With this case in point he took his team to the Finals and beaten many opponents in the PlayOffs, this fact alone ranks him ahead of Chris Paul. But in my opinion, Allen Iverson is one of the greatest Shooting Guards ever and would be top 10 somewhere under Michael Jordan and with the company of guys like Clyde Drexler.
Isiah's championships exploits were similar to MJ with the level of bigs he won with. They were good, just not on the level of most championship squads. Yeah. AI is a great talent, I just wouldn't want him.. lol How did rules make inside less efficient?
illegal defense (zone) so perimeter players could roam part way in between. That stand offish they play, where they swipe on the dribble they do to Dwight was never allowed in the past. Also the way they let you fall down...
Dude has to have some sort of playoff success. He's been in the league long enough. If he doesn't this year, excuses are all out.
Couldn't this same sagging be helpful to offensive players because they're not being guarded as closely? Post players can easily make moves when help is wavering. If the defense fully commits it still leaves wide open shooters. Flopping hurts perimeter players more because they're more out of control when they drive vs someone already in the paint.
I'm surprised that people on this site consider CP3 to be overrated. I thought you guys were all big on efficiency ratings? Chris Paul averages almost 5 assists per turnover this season and roughly 4 assists per turnover in his career. He is also has a career PER of 25.64 which is 6th all time behind only MJ, Lebron, Shaq, David Robinson, and Wilt Chamberlain. Because I consider efficiency ratings to be complete BS, I still consider Magic Johnson and Oscar Robinson to be better as I judge basketball more so by individual accomplishment as opposed to baseball where stats mean everything. An NBA player can take over and will their team to a title sometimes and that is what Magic, MJ, Lebron, DWade, Kobe, Bill Russell, Bird, and others have done in the past. No need to make excuses and point at efficiency ratings to back it up. They don't hand out championship rings for efficiency champs. But that said, CP3 is the reason the Clippers are where they are and why they are the #1 team in least turnovers.
The same arguments made about Chris Paul could leveled at the following: Oscar Robertson (Did not reach NBA Finals until he was traded to Milwaukee to play with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar) Steve Nash (never reached NBA Finals and two vastly talented teams - Dallas and Phoenix) Isiah Thomas (did not reach NBA finals until year 7) Kevin Johnson (Reached the NBA finals, once ... was the 2nd best star on a team with John Stockton What puts CP3 above most point guards, even great ones is that he's a total package player...he can score; he's great dead-eye shooter; he's unselfish; he's a good playmaker; he makes good decision; he's efficient, and he actually plays really good defense. The people bashing him for not winning, anything... Again,like the LeBron or even Yao arguments, how many players in NBA history, outside of maybe a great center could win with New Orleans from 05-10? Your best teammates would be David West, Morris Peterson, Tyson Chandler, and an older Peja. Put CP3 with the Lakers in place of Magic or the Suns in place of KJ or Nash, you cannot tell me he's going to go titleless. People just say in a vacuum,"He HASN"T WON ANYTHING, HE CANNOT BE A TOP 5 PLAYER," but all of the top 5 players were on really good teams (even without star players in question).
Thats a braud statement a misinformed fan would make. Legacy is defined in the playoffs, but more importantly are playoff TEAMS. Can you specifically point out a series where CP3 didn't perform well?
For me he is already a top 10 point guard all time, maybe top 5. Whether or not he can advance to at least a couple finals appearances (let's hope not) with his uber talented team will determine for me his position in the top 5. He has a very unique skills set and really "plays" the game (works over the officials, gets under opponents skin, etc.). As a spectator I do not respect his game, but I also don't deny that he is one of the best to ever play.
The stat that stuck out to me last night was 47 assists and only 3 turnovers. Granted it was just three games. He is a great leader and defender and doesn't cost the team points off of bad turnovers. No way he is overrated.
Paul is not overrated. He is a great PG. He is also a shameless flopper and a cheap shot artist. He could have been the best PG by his talent and skills alone. But he chooses to use dirty tactic to get an edge.
Thing is, Magic had size and played all five positions as a 20 year old and won the finals. So I'm not sure about that. I think the issue is not that the PG is least impactful, but rather that there is less variation in the quality of PGs than other positions. There are a lot of good PGs. Yes, there are the Raymond Feltons, but there are a ton of really good PGs: Parker, CP3, Rondo, Curry, Wall, Lowry, Dragic, Lillard, Westbrook, DRose, Kyrie, Lawson, etc. Every year, there're always PGs that are on the list of top All-Star snubs (e.g. Lowry & Dragic this year) Since so many teams have good PGs, having a great point guard doesn't set a team apart as much as having a really good wing or big.
