The closest comparision to Jordan is D Wade. D Wade is the only guard since Jordan to carry a team to a championship. Kobe and Tmac (a few years ago--he really seems to be progressing in leadership even though his explosiveness is not what it was) as fantastic as they were/are, just don't manage their teams as well in the playoffs. And after what D Wade did last year in the playoffs (with zones, pace difference, etc), anyone that doubts Jordan wouldn't be the best player in the playoffs now has no perspective. As much as I like D Wade, Jordan in his mid 20s was just a bigger, better, even more athletic, even more commanding, version. And forget the Shaq related comment. In the finals Shaq actually had a negative influence versus the Mavs (the Heat did better with Zo in there). Shaq is a shell of who Kobe played with when those Lakers won titles and Shaq cleaned up the hardware. So until Kobe carries a team to multiple championships he should not even be talked about in relation to Jordan. He hasn't even done it once like Wade has, and he had a great chance when Detroit made him a very inefficient player in the finals (something they have not been able to do to Wade).
Well you could say this about Karl Malone, Stockton and David Robinson too. IMO it is more about circumstance they never lead their teams to championships. They were good enough and team oriented enough--just ran into the the wrong buzzsaws (Hakeem, Jordan, etc). (IMO DR's rings he got as caddy to Duncan reveal even less than Pippen and Kobe and Drexler's rings via their peak form teammate legends' coattails).
yes, exactly. KB need at least go to conference final a couple of times as the first option before compared to MJ.
MJ had helluva squad. I hate Pip because of his Houston trip, but seriously how can one say he was overhyphed? If anything, he was underrated.. I think we should discuss wheather Kobe is better than Pippen. I'd say hardly. Short term memory is what (we) poeple have.
WHAT???????? (sorry for the heightened reaction!) Pippen was listed as one of the 50 greatest of all time...i think that is an absolute joke. I can not believe he made that list...and for that I'd say he was grossly overrated. He could not be "the man" on a team. Not even CLOSE. He struggled everywhere but Chicago. Kobe is better than Pippen...and I don't think it's close. And I'm no Kobe fan.
Pippen was the centerpiece of a pretty good Bulls teams when Jordan 1st "retired". I think the question is legitimate (much more legitimate than comparing Kobe and Jordan), though I think Kobe is better than Pippen. But I think MJ and Pippen were better than MJ and Kobe would have been.
UGH where to begin. 1. Jordan had some absolutely superior squads. Please stop with the Jordan was all world who carried his team. Until Jordan got another world class player in Pippen, and more All star players (Harper, Rodman, Grant) with some of the deadliest sharpshooters around (Paxton, Kerr, Hodges) Jordan wasn't squat but first or second round playoff fodder. 2. Jordan benefited from the non zone rules. Does anyone really believe that Jordan would of done what he did in the face of Constant double and Triple teams, WITH a team like Kobe has NOW? No freaking way. Jordan was the man and all, but lets get realistic. Almost every offensive set from the Bulls in their hey day began with Jordan at the top of the circle, man to man, and penetrating for the whistle, dish, or shot attempt. And Jordan, was crazy given the whistle. 3. I firmly believe Jordan in his prime on the same Lakers Team that Kobe has right now, is not one game better than the Lakers are right now. Im not sure if Kobe would be as good as Jordan on those Bulls teams, But Kobe RIGHT now on those Bulls teams probably are very similarly successful. Jordan was a great player. One of the best, but I guess Id put it this way. If J and K would go at it one on one, I think Kobe would pick J apart. Kobe has way more range, and is a much better finisher at the rim in traffic. Just noticed your From El Paso. Man do I ever miss El Paso, and weekend trips over the border to the clubs. Spanky's, the Copa....ahhhh the good times.
Which is better than Kobe has done as a leader of a team. Last I checked Wade had a Jordan-esk playoff run. Kobe, Tmac, Carter--none of the other great SGs have done the same. And guess what Wade's game is the closest to Jordan's going, only Jordan was even bigger and had more range. The only point I agree at all is that Kobe might beat him in 1 on 1. As a leader of a team and within the concept of team basketball Kobe does not belong in a discussion with Jordan.
I agree with most of the other things you said, DS, but not on this. Jordan in his prime would take Bryant, and I would pay good money to see it. Too bad that's not possible.
Is kobe more valuable than Franchise? When Francis was with rockets, rockets can win 45 games per year, and Francis's supporting cast is worse than Kobe's. Kobe is definitely less valuable than peak time Iverson. As long as lakers can get the rebounding advantage, iverson will lead them to the playoff.
People that say Pippen was overrated are usually bitter rocket fans, or MJ extremist who want to portray MJ as a guy who carried scrubs to a title.
Shaq had a positive influence on Wade, his presence drew 2 7 foot double teams. Dont put too much stock into a computers rating of an impact, basketball isnt a stat derived sport like baseball is. And Im a huge stat guy, but even I know the limits of raw +/- numbers.
MJ wouldve done better in todays league, considering he had considerable success as a 40 year old with shot knees, in the same defense that you talked about MINUS the Handchecking rule (remember it came out the year MJ retired from Washingon). MJ carried a much weaker team than the Lakers have now to more success. Replace MJ with Kobe today, (a prime MJ) and the Lakers arent fighting for their playoff lives.
let's stop this non-sense Jordan-Kobe comparsion. Seriously i want to know, how many will lakers win if trade kobe for francis, assuming francis play at the level when he was with rockets. Francis better in rebounding and assists to get team mate involved, but not as good as kobe in scoring. But he did managed to lead the team to win 40+ games with a much worse supporting case (K.Brown, Bynam + ODEM > Cato+Taylor+Griffin).
Hand checking vs constant non stop double and triple teaming....Hmmm. Look, Its not that Im not giving Jordan his great place in history. I just dont buy that Jordan would be as able to score with as much double and triple teaming that Kobe gets. Im not saying that Jordan wasnt the better team mate. Im saying pound for pound, Kobe is the best pure player, score, slasher, defender, outside threat there has been since Wilt. Im by far a Kobe lover. But the man can put up 80 points while being legally triple teamed, is just nuts. No way does Jordan pull this off. If your talking purely on a talent level, Kobe is better then Jordan. As for the better team player...of course thats Jordan. As for the Wade Arguement. Umm, why does Kobe get a pass for winning with Shaq, whilst Wade doesnt? The Heat had about the same record as the Lakers while Shaq was out. And Id say that the Heat still had better talent. The Wade led Heat look less then average in the weak Eastern Conference. Nope, not buying the Wade argument. I think 99 percent of the GMs if starting a team would pick Kobe over Wade. Wade has NO where near Kobe's Range, or defensive abilities.
