Shaq said that out of respect for Hakeem which I admire but his word isn't de facto. Most people have debated and Shaq and Hakeem are always neck and neck with one another in ranking among the All Time Great Centers. Jordan doesn't have a "stratosphere". Anyone thinking that he can never be touched or reached has been brainwashed by ESPN and his commercials.
Of course Shaq said that about Hakeem out of respect, that respect comes out of him knowing that there was no other center in history or since Hakeem that was so skilled on both ends of the floor and totally unstoppable. If Shaq ever got a nod over Hakeem it will be because Hakeem is quite possibly the most underappreciated NBA superstar. Whether brainwashed by ESPN or not, MJ is unquestionably the player that today's superstars aspire to, even Kobe has said that before along with D-Wade, Lebron, and Carmelo. I never said MJ was untouchable, but so far he is alone at the bar he has set for today's NBA players. Maybe when Kobe learns to be the total package, plays lockdown defense every game not just when he wants to, makes his teammates around him better, and of course most importantly, stops b*tchslapping defenders that shut him down, then maybe he could be mentioned with the greatness of MJ.
Your argument is weak, are basketball players not susceptible to brainwashing?? Answer this question, and then read your post one more time
What's up with all this "brainwashing" stuff? I guess MJ must really be the most badass baller the NBA has ever seen, he even has a "brainwashing" effect on other players. Guess that does answer my question.
of course kobe is better than MJ...the traveling he did at the closing minutes in overtime proved that.
I'll go on the record saying - yes. Bryant has several factors in his favor. He's rapidly approaching Jordan's 50 point game mark, only being midway through his career. While Jordan was never a prolific or even proficient 3-pt shooter, Bryant holds the record for most made in a game. Bryant has no 2nd star to take defensive pressure off, and achieved a 35 ppg avg and taking a solid team to a 7th playoff game. He's just as athletically gifted, and has the inate ability to hit an unbelievable shot in the clutch - witness his tying fadeaway last night against the Rox. Granted, there's bias in that his exposure is mulitiplied in the internet, mass media era, while Jordan's accomplishments in the 80's were not witnessed first hand my many of us, including myself. Ok, its really hard to make this agrument with 6 consecutive rings staring at you, but it underlines what a powerful force Bryant has become in his 10 seasons.
Yeah, I'm starting to understand that younger people that didn't get to experience watching Jordan in the 80s and early 90s will of course not be able to unbiasedly look at this Kobe-Jordan discussion. So I guess sometimes you just got to go to the YouTube to see what Jordan was all about (winning and his fair share of unbelievable shots in the clutch). So maybe the internet can re-introduce Michael Jordan to you youngsters out there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbq8Lv5frwQ
How can Jordan be better than MJ when he isn't even the best player in his generation (hello Tim Duncan)? How can he be better than MJ when he wasn't even always the best player on his own team (hello Shaq)? Kobe right now isn't even a lock to make the top 10 all time: MJ, Magic, Bird, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, Moses, Oscar off the top of my head.... MJ packed a big man's efficiency into a guards body. Holla at me when Kobe wins a defensive player of the year award, hits 8 boards and 8 dimes a season, wins a MVP or gets his team past the first round. Then maybe he can crack my top 10....
Even in terms of offense, MJ was more efficient from the floor than Kobe ever was. How many 50%+ seasons did MJ have? Now, how many has Kobe had? Seriously, I think Kobe is an amazing talent and an offensive beast, but even in the only area he comes close to Jordan in he still falls short. MJ was the best guard in NBA history and it isn't very close, Wilt was the most dominant big man in league history.
Again, you glorify Jordan to make it out like he's some mythical being. No one is denying the fact that Jordan set the bar for the league because no one is that stupid. You never said he was untouchable? What's that "Kobe's not even in the same stratosphere" talk? Even if it's metamorphically, you surely did put a vast gap between Jordan and arguably the best player on the planet right now. (No I didn't say MVP so no need to come in with the Nash/Dirk talk) As for making his teammates better...who did Jordan make better? Pippen, who basically is a Top 50 player ever all by himself (if you don't believe that, look at the 93-94 stats on him and tell me "He's nothing without Jordan" with a straight face)? Kerr? Paxson? Please. They came through in the clutch because 1)they are remarkable shooters and 2)they were left open because of a certain reason. I really laugh at all this "Jordan made his teammates better" defense because it's not really a good one. Why? Because it's not that Jordan made his teammates better, it's that he actually TRUSTED his teammates. The only intangible evidence that Jordan made his teammates better is that they perform when they had to--that's about it. Skill wise, talent wise, Jordan didn't improve anything. It's easy to love Jordan is because he's...Jordan. I harbor no ill feelings for the guy. He's a great player and the games I remember watching were all memorable. But holding him to this high standard while demeaning what Kobe's done is just being in denial. I can pretty much think of reasons why people blow off what Kobe's done the past couple of years: 1. He's the antithesis of Jordan. Instead of being charismatic, he's cocky. Instead of being "clean", he had rape charges against him. Instead of being the first, he has the "burden" of living within a shadow and being called a copycat. 2. Biting off the hand that fed him (i.e. Shaq). Shaq, although sometimes he needs to stick a foot in his mouth, is a cool and funny guy. He's a big kid. And when Kobe wanted to be alpha-male, no one outside of LA liked that. It was almost a little too much 'et tu Brute'. 3. The rape charges. No need to elaborate on that. Basically that's why I think people would NEVER succumb to holding Kobe at Jordan's level. Not because of basketball; it's mostly because of the person we perceive Kobe to be. I think everyone would rather see LeBron or Wade fill MJ's shoes than to see Kobe ever sniffing them. Which is sad because LeBron lacks the fire and ruthless assassin mentality that Jordan and Kobe has and Wade's game (although very clutch) has not evolved into the deadly one Jordan had and the one Kobe is polishing. Am I a Kobe apologist? Heck no. I'm surprised this reply has been so long. I think that, no matter how guilty I think he is for the Colorado incident, no matter how BS his acting job is after he shoots, and no matter how much his smirk makes me want to punch him in the face, Kobe is the closest this era of NBA basketball will have of a Jordan.
No. Kobe Bryant is not better than Michael Jordan. People who believe this way must have not seen Jordan play during his heyday. Simply put, if Michael Jordan took 35-40 shots a game like Kobe is doing now during his prime he'd average 40 ppg a season. MJ was a much more effecient scorer than Bryant. His shooting percentage was around 50-55% during his prime. His ability to attack the basket and draw fouls has not been matched by any guard in the NBA since (the only one coming close now is Dwayne Wade). Despite of his occasional explosions, Bryant is not a better scorer than Jordan. The only areas where he's better than Jordan is his mid to long range shooting. One can argue Bryant is a more complete offensive player than Jordan was, but he is not a better scorer. In other aspects of the game Bryant is also no match to MJ in his prime. Jordan averaged between 2.5-3 steals a game for his prime and was consistently one of the best defenders in the game (even won a defensive player of the year award, a rare achievement for a guard). Bryant is a good defender in his own right, but he isn't nearly as dominant on defense as Jordan was. Jordan also averaged more rebounds and assists and less turnovers in his prime than Bryant does now. The most important factor to judge a player should ultimately be his team record. Jordan was on some of the greatest NBA teams ever while Bryant's team is struggling to be just mediocre. That should be the biggest telling factor. Bryant is the best shooting guard of this generation. His offensive game is more complete than Jordan's and perhaps any guard's ever. However, Bryant is not a better scorer than Michael Jordan, and definitely not a better basketball player.
Of course MJ had better players around him. That's because Kobe fights with and runs off the good players on his team, like Shaq.
For the people who keep saying Jordan's team without him was still decent: in the first two years of bryant career(when he was not a big part of the lakers) the lakers had records of: 96-97: 56-26 97-98: 61-21 after that Kobe scored more then 9 points per game.I mention these two years since that was also the time Shaq started playing for the lakers. i really cannot understand how people think Kobe is better.Kobe has done nothing without Shaq. He never went far in the play-offs as the main man on a team. Jordan won 6 championships as the main man on a team. Huge difference.
Don't compare Pippen to Shaq please.. Shaq is the most dominant player on the planet, he was a beast in his prime when Lakers won 3 rings. Pippen on the other hand, is a very good player, but is no where near the impact Shaq brings t his team. One of the reason MJ is considered the greatest is because he was able to win it all (6 times) without a dominant big man. Name another 2 guard in history that has done that. Kobe has been incredible on the offensive end, but he averages what? 1 or 2 assists in his last 10 games or so? He can win games with his scoring, but he needs to improve his other aspect of games such as balancing to be on MJ's level. Also, he needs to win at least "one" ring on his own.
Did you ever watch Pippen in his prime? The man did all sorts of things for his team that don't show up in the stats. I won't go as far as to say he impacts a game to the same degree Shaq does, but to completely write him off like that is revisionist history. I hate him too, but he didn't get on the 50 greatest players list for passing the ball to Jordan every time downcourt.
so hypothetically if we swapped Pippen and Shaq, that Jordan would only have 3 rings, and bryant suddenly 6? pippen was a nice player(i really do think he was overrated, i think he looked good because he played next to jordan, but that is besides the point). But Jordan was the main man on the Bulls teams, and Bryant was just the second man on the Lakers. Untill Bryant wins some(that means more then 1) championships as the main man, he will not even be close to Jordan.
what??? where did I write pippen off in any way? Pippen was a great player, but was he capable of winning rings with him as main man? Not likely. On the other hand, Shaq has been the most dominant force for years, it is no coincident that every team Shaq has been on (Magics, Lakers, Miami) has been to final and make playoff every year. When it comes to winning championship, Pippen's impact on the team is NOT in the same league as Shaq's.
Sure, it is possible but nobody in the game has shown any signs that they can do it. Kobe can put up Jordan numbers or even better than Jordan numbers for a few games at a time but he can't consistently score the ball like Jordan and he certainly does not do it nearly as efficiently. We all agree Kobe can't defend like Mike could so I don't really see how anyone can logically think that Kobe is as good or better than Jordan. When a guy shows up and averages 30+ PPG, 5 boards, 5 assists, is arguably the best defender in the league, shoots over 50% and WINS and does it for a decade then we can start comparing him to Jordan. Anyone saying Kobe is better than Jordan should also agree that Robinson (scored 71 in a game) was a better player than Hakeem. If scoring the ball is all that makes a player great then that one is no-brainer.
