Duncan is only the franchise PF then. Duncan didn't not have many 82 game seasons. He had a few 82 game seasons, 3 seasons, 8-12 years ago. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html
To me Bosh is akin to Chris Webber. He seems like a franchise player - but he failed to live up to it - being great for only a few years. I think like Webber, Bosh is too injury prone for one, and too his style of game won't last (the history in the NBA of big man who rely on explosiveness is not good). I think Bosh can create his own shot - the fact he gets to the free throw line so much is a testament to that fact. But he isn't someone you would build your franchise around. I'm not saying the Rockets shouldn't go after him, but we're talking about franchise players here. You build a team around Dwight Howard or yesterday's Tim Duncan. You build a team around the Shaq's and Olajuwon's. You can even build a team around Karl Malone and John Stockton - the Jazz had two franchise players there. But some guys aren't franchise guys. Chris Webber is a great story to pay attention too. Sacramento decided to build their future around him, and then he had a knee injury and was never the same player. A guy like Duncan can recover from major knee surgery because his game doesn't depend on explosiveness as much as strength. Chris Bosh is too risky in my opinion - his quickness can disappear in one game for good. Do you really want to commit 6-7 years with that?
Why am I scared of Chris Bosh? He reminds me of this guy . . . All world talent but . . . .just could not MAKE IT HAPPEN! Rocket River
Bosh has never played a full season in 7 seasons. Not once. This season Duncan played in 78 games in his 13th season. In Bosh's 7 seasons, he has only topped 78 games once. Do you really think Bosh is going to get more durable then he currently is??? In 3 years we'll be lucky to get 60 games a season from the guy.
You are right. Oh no, Bosh played 81 games once, so he never played 82 games in a season. He will destroy our team like T-Mac. Bosh will be getting worse every season. He improved from 67-69 games to 70 and 77 games in the last 2 years. It's not going to kill the team, if he misses 5 games. If he improves by only 2-3 more games from 70 and 77, it would put him at 72-80 games. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html
Point is that he has some injury every year that forces him to miss games. You remember Karl Malone? Missed like a total of 4 games in his first decade. That's a franchise player. That's a guy you make an investment in. Bosh is going to have injuries to his knees and legs. When you are 6'11" and you game is about quickness and explosiveness, it's inevitable. The history of such guys - Chris Webber, Shawn Kemp, Derrick Coleman, Shariff Abdul Rahim...is long and sad. I'm not saying we don't get the guy. I'm just saying, don't count on him being a Luis Scola in terms of durability. he won't be. He'll be closer to Yao and T-mac.
My definition of a franchise player is one that you are willing to sacrifice your teams financial flexibility for over the life of their contract. Bosh will command a max contract and I don't think he is worth it. I truly believe that if we get Bosh and pay him max I will have to suffer through at least two years of Bosh bashing threads on this very forum.
The following thread has a fantastic opinion write-up about franchise players. Why the Rockets Can't Lose: The McGrady Trade and the Myth of Team Building Going by the definition offered here, i.e. player's ability to elevate teammates' play, Chris Bosh does not seem to be a franchise player. Chris Bosh's stats say that he can rebound, and he can score (somewhat efficiently), but does he really instill that confidence in you that he will do whatever it takes to win? He doesn't to me, though I'm finding it difficult to pinpoint evidence for why I think so.
Signficantly different to me, actually. SAR had exactly 1 winning season in his entire career, during 2005-2006 when he was a role player on the Kings. He was only moderately efficient as far as TS% goes (.549 for career), especially in a leading role. Bosh, on the other hand, has at least been the #1 guy on a couple playoff teams. His TS% for his career is .571 and was higher than that during the last few years. In any case, telling a part guys like SAR from guys who are truly worth the max is why Morey is hired. I trust him to make the right choice at this point.
I'm worried that he is not. In my opinion, franchise players are (when healthy): Lebron Kobe Wade Nowitzki Duncan Howard Durant Paul Arguable: Yao Nash C. Anthony I would say that Bosh comes in a tier below these guys, with people like Josh Smith, Amare, Pierce, Garnett (at this point), Brandon Roy...but probably heads this group. Unless we have a shot at Wade, Dirk, Paul, he is probably our most attainable target at this point. And I guess one should always go for the best star available because by doing that, at the same time you improve your chances to use that guy to get one of the even bigger stars. At least that's how I used to do it when I still played fantasy basketball .
I'm not going to flame you, but I will disagree with you :grin: Your argument that he puts up bad numbers just because he's on a bad team isn't accurate. Players who do that are guys who are typically chuckers and their teams only optoin. Usually their efficiency numbers aren't great, but Bosh's are better than Dirk's across the board. Bosh takes fewer shots per game, has a higher FG%, TS%, and takes more FT's. Dirk is a better 3 point shooter, thats not really part of Bosh's game, and Dirk is a better free throw shooter, however Bosh still shoots 80%. Bosh isn't some chucker who takes advantage of his teams offensive deficiencies. In fact the Raptors were one of the highest scoring teams in the league this year. Their problem is that Andrea Bargnani is their starting center and they got Hedo Turkey Glue and Calderon trying to play D on the perimeter. Bosh isn't a great defensive player, but you put him with players with players who are at the bottom of the barrel at their position defensively you're going to struggle. Duncan is clearly on his way out. In his prime, yes, I would take him over Bosh 12 times out of 10, but not now.
Agree and well said. Second tier elite is perfect way to describe him. Question: If you had to pick a player to go to war with in the playoffs, who would you pick between Chris Bosh and Luis Scola?
Bosh had his 140 characters or less on the topic, now here is mine. "Superstars and max contract players win playoff games. Bosh's Raps? Three playoff wins since Carter's departure." (That's 112 characters but I think you get the point).
How many playoff series did Jordan win in his first two full seasons? What were his teams records those years? Now, argue that Jordan in those two years was not a franchise caliber player. Check the stats before you say anything.
If you put it that way, although Bosh is the better player stat-wise, IMO I go to war with Scola every time, particularly with Hill as the back up. Scola gives you the grit, intelligence, stamina and raw horsepower that you won't get from Bosh.
