Mays is better than both! just kidding!! i'd put Mays ahead of Bonds, though. i might even put ted williams ahead of bonds...and possibly hank aaron. the game has just changed so much, even from aaron's day to today.
While comparing old timers to modern ballplayers, another interesting one might be Henderson and Cobb.
I've held out on replying to this thread b/c I needed ample time to mull it over. I think the only way you can compare stars of different generations is to compare them to their contemporaries. Having said that, Ruth blows Bonds out of the water. I haven't done a great deal of research, but I recall reading statistics that Bonds out-homered the rest of his league on more than one occaision. Plus add his pitching escapades to the fact (as others have mentioned), and I really don't think this is a contest. However, Bonds is in the top 10 of all time. I'd like to say top 5, but that's rough to define.
first off, i'll say i choose Ruth both as an offensive player (but not by much b/c of bonds steals which are ridiculous, not only the only 500/500 guy, but the only 400/400 guy) and overall b/c of his pitching. taking from Pued, Ruth saved and changed baseball and that must also be taken into account, along with pitching. therefore ruth wins. ruth, williams, bonds would be my order for best hitters, though bonds/williams is extremely close for me (especially again with bonds steals).
as an extra point, i hate when people use the steroids/bad pitching/smaller parks thing to denigrate today's players b/c they essentially try to preclude anybody of today's game from being as good as anybody of the past, which is utterly ridiculous. today's great's would have been great in the 60's, and they would have been great in the 20's. and the average players today would be the average players in those eras. using advantages in today's game to render all the achievements of today's players meaningless is stupid.
Comparing players generations apart is impossible, the lowest tier modern players would be superstars 75 years ago. Would Babe Ruth even be able to make the big leagues today if he were teleported through time? Its like having Jesse Owens try to make a modern olympic track team-- Owens is a great athlete but he wouldn't make it today.
after seeing him go down for the season again, i realized i completely forgot about griffey. he was pretty close to bonds for a while before the injuries. so maybe bonds wasn't easily the best for at least the 90's. but his '01 and '02 seasons are 2 of the top 4 greatest seasons in mlb history (with ruth 20/21) and that's on top of all he did before that. so bonds is definitely in his own class for our generation.
Bonds averaged 36 Hr's and 34 stls in the 90's. He's a 500-500 player. In my opinion, he was the best player in the 90's easily and as one article said. He got better in the 2000's. Don't forget 5 MVPS's and like 10 gold gloves. Which is scary. Then you have to consider how many HR's he hits per/strike. That is sick too. Remember the Astro game for the record. As far as Ruth, I'll just let you guys decide. I just ask the questions around here.
Alot of folx point out Ruth's Pitching How does Bond's Golden Gloves stand against that Is it pretty easy to get a Golden Glove or something? Rocket River ONCE AGAIN reiterating. . . I know little about the game
it's not that it's easy...it's just that it's so subjective. it's left to the media to decide (i think it's the media)...there's nothing objective about it all, and typically the players with good offensive numbers get picked as gold glovers. i would say barry is overrated defensively...i don't see him do the sort of things in the outfield that we see from hidalgo...and mike cameron...or jim edmonds...given, he's a leftfielder.
Gold Gloves are among the least respected awards in pro sports. For one thing , unless you get an Ozzie Smith type rep, they are usually awarded to guys with offensive numbers...there are countelss examples of guys having banner years at the plate, and suddenly finding their defensive skills have shot up to a point of deserving a Gold Glove... Another point is that, once you get a couple, you kind of have to fall down dead to avoid getting another. There's a seniority tradition with Gold Gloves that makes little sense. But if you really want to know more about the credibility of Gold Gloves, allow me to say four words: Rafael Palmeiro, Wade Boggs.
As Astros fans, we watched Caminiti, in his younger days, get passed up year after year for gold glove at 3B when he was clearly the best defensive player at that position. Can't remember who beat him out one year (an Atlanta Brave whose name escapes me)...but it was a total injustice!
Well, for a while it was Terry Pendleton, than it was Matt Williams, then it was the Braves guy...damn...I can see him....pissing me off...came from the Pirates originally, no?
yeah...I haven't slept yet...yeah, he went to the braves and won the MVP...so I was right, and wrong, at the same time. Now you say KC more than I did when he was younger, and maybe TP had regressed, but in his prime Pendleton was about as good a defensive third sacker as I've ever seen. Williams was awesome for a couple of years too...I liked Caminitti's game, but it would have had to have been them regressing for him to deserve it, because at their best they were each better than KC, IMO. Gerald Young might have been a legit candidate for a couple of years, IMO. Not the greatest arm, but man he covered ground. Off topic, but best defenders at each position I've ever seen...and underrated defenders at some, who desered Gold Gloves but didn't get them. C) Pudge...Better than Bench, IMO... 1b) Mattingly...Best I've seen, aggressive. Pete O'Brien. More than a shout out to you Texans, he was great. 2b) Alomar. WIth a slightly better arm he's a gold glove candidate shortstop. ss) Tony Fernandez...before the arm injury, better than Ozzie. I'm serious. 3b) Pendleton. lf) Tough one,because leftfielders are usually just hitters wioth nowhere to go...I guess Bonds. Rickey'd be up there with any kind of arm. cf) Griffey, White, or Murphy ( Dwayne, not Dale) Eric Davis. Because of the numbers, people forget what a stud he was in center. Talk Griffey or Bonds all you want...the outfielder with the most talent I have ever seen is Eric Davis, and it isn't all that close. Guy hit 40 homers, stole 80 bases, and was among the best at the position. rf) Van Slyke, Dwight Evans, Jessie Barfield. On his good days Vlad Guerrero is as good or better than any of em.
What about steroids, how can that not be a factor? What would Bonds numbers have been if he was on liquor like babe instead of steroids? Babe played less games, and was more dominant...Babe over Barry by a landslide. DD
