I resisted the urge to put up a poll. I'd rather have a discussion about this. Tonight on 60 minutes, Peter Gammons called Pujols a top 10 player of all-time. I was pretty shocked by the statement, but it is Peter Gammons, one of the few journalist that could make that statement with a straight face. I've never really put a list together of the best players ever, but judging by the shear amount of great players that have played the game, to put him in that company is pretty bold in my opinion. Sabr top 15 lists: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/legendary/lisab100.shtml Babe Ruth Lou Gehrig Ted Williams Hank Aaron Stan Musial Joe DiMaggio Ty Cobb Willie Mays Rogers Hornsby Honus Wagner Walter Johnson Mickey Mantle Christy Mathewson Jimmie Foxx Warren Spahn Who can Albert overtake on this list?
I dont think he is there...YET. I do, however, think that by the time he is done that he will be among the elite. Guy has over 2000 Hits, 430 HRs and 1300 RBIs with an OPS over 1.000 at 31.
He is a top 10 hitter, but even in this generation I would take arod, barry,and griffey over him just because they can play D at a gold glove caliber level in premium defensive locations. Bonds started out as a CF.
i'll say steroids aside, Clemens, Bonds, and Arod should get the nod over Pujols at the moment. I would also say given the time periods they played, Nap Lajoie and Joe Jackson were better baseball players.
Peter Gammons on Baseball Tonight once commented "Richard Justice, who's probably one of the sports writers, EVER" Credibility damaged. Though Gammons is good guy.
Alberto Pujols is a consummate professional and I hope he retires with the spotless track record he has sustained since day one. The guy is underappreciated maybe because he doesn’t play for the Yanks or Rd Sx or maybe because he is low-key like sea shells. Considering the context (Can you name a player as good or better that is not stained?) he is the best thing that has happened to baseball in as far as I can tell. To think the guy is only 31 is astonishing in this day and age of middle to late bloomers. Whether he makes it to the top 10, or to the top 3 conversation, is a question of durability and nothing else.
What about the fact that some of the "best ever" never played in integrated leagues? Don't you think that automatically knocks them down a peg? Imagine a league without C.C. Sabathia, Lincecum, King Felix, David Price, Matt Garza, Jaime Garcia, Anibal Sanchez, Ervin Santana, Ubaldo Jimenez, Michael Pineda, Johnny Cueto and many more? Furthermore, no Mariano Rivera, Neftali Feliz, K-Rod, Carlos Marmol, Joakim Soria, etc? No guys like Franklin Gutierez, Denard Span, Andrew McCutcheon, Carl Crawford to rob outfield hits and HRs? Basically, remove 1/3 of active players, and you get pre-integration baseball. Additionally, if a player never tests positive for steroids, you have to give him way more credit for doing it clean against probably 75+% of people juicing for an advantage, whereas in Ruth/Gehrig/Williams's time, juicing meant the pitchers hit happy hour before the game. Even with all that being said, here's how Pujols stacks up against some of the all-time great position players; it's definitely not out of the question that if he continues at a normal aging curve, he'll no doubt be in the top 10 of all time. Spoiler Spoiler
wow...so that list hasn't changed in THIRTY FIVE years....really, sabr. No one new since Hank Aaron retired. and only 3 pitchers. What a profoundly bad list. What other sport wouldn't change their top 15 in thirty five years.
Well, it is only through 1999, so it could be different, of course steroids has ruined how we view Bonds and Clemens, who would be locks for top 10 status without the cloud. Having few pitchers isn't a big surprise. There are 8 position players compared to the 3 to 5 man rotations that existed over baseball's history.
1999 or 2011...doesn't matter. That list is missing 3 decades of baseball. Three decades. No one on that list is younger than 77 yrs old. No one on that list was a rookie after 1954. No one who was in the prime in the 70s, 80s or 90s is on that list. Two of the three pitchers were rookies in 1900 and 1907. Mathewson never played when there was such a thing as home runs. Johnson barely did. There are at least 5 pitchers who have overtaken Warren Spahn. That is a profoundly bad list for refusing to include anyone from the 70s, 80s and 90s. Think about it...no championship team for the 70s,80s,90s has a representative on that list. No other sport would put out such a glaringly biased Top 15.
Baseball is an old man's sport, It's dying away because it refuses to adjust to changing times(See: Instant Replay) Also, I live in Houston Texas so any question about Pujols and my immediate response is always Albert Sucks.
Buth Gehrig Foxx Musial Jackson Lajoie Bonds Clemens Cobb Wagner Horsnby I won't even throw out the pitchers from the early era of baseball. But that's 11 players I can't see given Pujols' numbers right now he can be better than.
That's the thing though... it won't be just Pujols' numbers right now. When it's all said and done, he will be right there with the all-time greats. Possibly better than Musial. Definitely the best of the modern era. What the guy has done since DAY ONE has been unprecedented. I was there in St. Louis when he busted out in 2001... thinking it would be a fluke. I touted Lance Berkman and Roy Oswalt would be the "sure things" while Pujols would be a one-hit wonder and go the way that Big Mac (McGwire) was going at the time. What the hell did I know. Clearly I was just witnessing something special... once in a generation-type players that are just too good to be contained.
First player ever to hit 30+ HR in each and every one of his first 11 years of his career. He's not going to lose his hitting ability till at least his mid to late 30's, barring injury. He's got 4-5 years of solid prime years left... scary.
Like others have said, assuming Pujols keeps a statistical pace with a slight decline due to age, he will be one of the best HITTERS of all time. Again though, he will never be better than Bonds, A-Rod and maybe Griffey of this generation. But he can't touch Griffey or Bonds defensively, so I would probably give the nod overall to KGJ.
This got me thinking about Darryl Strawberry, the guy was 15 home runs shy over a 9 year span to having 30 homers for his first 9 seasons.
I keep seeing Ken Griffey's name pop up as a superior player to Albert. Offensively Albert will destroy most of Griffey's numbers and should pass him in HRs. Defensively Griffey was fantastic but people underestimate Pujols at 1st base. Albert is a GG caliber 1st baseman. Given a choice...Pujols and it really isn't even close. Bonds is another...pretty obvious when he started roiding up and his pre-roid numbers are Hall worthy but not better then Albert's will be. All this of course if Albert stays healthy.
