Slavery and racism in the United States are remarkably intertwined - thus slavery is still relevant. Enslavement is one of the greatest moral crimes ever to have taken place...and the United States perpetuated slavery for 85 years (as the United States; the colonies had slavery dating back to the mid 1600's). Jim Crow laws and Black Codes in the South were a direct attempt to re-impose a slave-like status upon black folk - it was often stated as such quite unambiguously. When laws are distinctly designed to maintain a second-class status of people whose status was codified in slavery, then slavery is relevant. The Civil Rights movement ended many of those egregious laws, but not many of the mentalities that passed from generation to generation, and the legacies of those laws are finally leaving our laws. Racism is taught, and the roots of that learning hearken back to slavery. In a country where racism's ugly head is often shrouded, but present, we must address the past in order to move towards the future. Telling black people that slavery is irrelevant is like telling Jewish folk that the Holocaust is irrelevant or telling Chinese folks that the Cultural Revolution or the Rape of Nanking is irrelevant. We cannot softpedal historical abuses by saying it doesn't matter - what has to happen is an open, earnest and frank dialogue about those matters. IMO, the lack of discussion about racial issues is why we have so many problems in America, because too many people hold misguided thoughts in a vacuum, with no way to challenge/test those beliefs or change.
And one of the great legacies of slavery was racism; thus, the examples cited are still valid. When rhetoric about one group of people was designed to justify holding human beings as chattel (blacks are dumber/more ignorant/childlike/lazy/shiftless), and then gets passed on from generation to generation, then slavery is still relevant.
i agree with most of what your saying here, but only as some of the cause. but number one your first post in this thread was plain dumb. there is a lasting effect of it, doesnt mean they need to pass a bill that will make up for it in some way. the way you should repay any race in this country is to do it by making it ALL equal. meaning pay women the same you pay a man for the same job. stop sentencing black people longer for the same crime. hopefully things will keep getting better over time. they have been for sometime already, its just gradual. things sure are not as simple as you make it when it comes to this though.
People were not enslaved because they were hard workers, but because their race was considered inferior. It's the sentiment behind slavery that still lives on today.
no, the racism comes from slavery. slavery was purely economic when african were first brought over to the western hemisphere. its when the enslavers were questioned about the brutality that brought about the excuses of inferiority, hedonism, etc.
no not at all the person i was quoting said it was one of the greatest moral crimes in history. i was just stating that its happened many times. and personally i think its horrible and i dont understand how people did it in the first place.
DaDa/and others willing to listen and have an open mind If a woman is raped . . .a child is produced from it Do you think that the way she treats that child based on the ] fact that it is the product of rape? [If you say NO then I will conclude you are IMO a bit ilinformed on the way human emotions work and suggest you end reading my post at this point] If Yes - Then the question is: IS THE RAPE relevent to the child . . .even if she did not experience it? Do you think the interaction between this child and her mother will color how the child will interact with its child [the grandchild of the rape victim]? If so . . . Is the rape relevent to this Grandchild? Studies have shown that children of Alcoholics will be Alcoholics themselves If grandpa was an Alcoholic. . .pa is probably an alcoholic. . and I could be an alcoholic Is grandpa picking up the bottle Relevent to me? Studies have shown the children of wife-abuser/child abuser will be abusers themselves If Grandpa beat Grandma .. . Pa beat ma . . .there are good chance I will beat my wife. Is Grandpa deciding to beat Grandma . .. relevent to me? Yes I can CHOSE to not drink . . I can CHOSE to not Abuse my wife or Child. . . Even in Chosing to do to otherwise. . . the relevence of the historical events is not lessened. Let me share a story of my life I normally don't on this forum but Dada I have alot of respect for you and Feel that you have always been open and honest even when we disagree In college I was a member of an MLK Organization One day after a meeting we were just asking questions about racial issue A white guy asked. . . that he noticed that when he passed Black folx they tended to look away . . .down and away . .they may nod or say hello but will look down and away . . .he wondered if this was a hang over from slavery I was mad. .. I was ticked. . . I SAID NO!! IT IS CULTURAL but . .. I thought on it . . more and more My grandfather generally didn't like you 'eying' him In my family such Staring contest were like challenging Authority was not to be done . . . This was the case in slave times. . . slaves were not to look owners directly in the eyes . . .It was seen as a challenge Ever heard the term 'Reckless Eyeballing'? google it It was a lynchable offense So a behavior in slave times was reenforce in the times after through Law [Reckless eyeballing] and cultural norms [My Grandpa was probably teaching me a 'survival tactic' that may or may not have been necessary Well . . .in Small town Louisiana. . it was still necessary ] Back to the Rape Analogy While Alholism and Wife abuse are decisions like rape. . .Slavery was a violation . . not a choice the reprecussions are paid for . .not by the offender but the victim So excuse me If you feel I am brushing off your opinion but You are largely unaffected by slavery How many conversations did you and your parents have about lynching when you were growing up? I had quite a few . . . was it to make me hate white folx. . .or was it a way to teach me to be aware of the dangers presented . . . I know you may say my parents were teaching me something that no longer was necessary but . . Mr. James Byrd Jr would disagree. Trust takes time to build you cannot take 400+ years of abuse and act like 40 years is enough to make up for it . .to the point that the original abuse is irrelevent This is open and frank dialogue and my opinion this is not for TROLLS, Racists and Bigots. . which I am sure my favorite Racist BIGOT will respond [surprise me and don't . . .] This is the Conversation. Look at the History Look at the Culture Look at the totality of the situation and not bits and pieces DaDa I put this out there for the purpose of enlightment and dialog [not diatribes] I think their is a significant number of folx out there who are open to learning and honest communications but of course the Racist Bigots will have their part to throw out too. [Not all dissenters are racist Bigots . . . but some have proven themselves worthy of the title through history of posting patterns] Rocket River
consider this... our (blacks) elders raised us. our elders, specifically our grandparents, experienced segregation and overt racsim first hand. FIRST HAND. yes, that's different from slavery, per se, but is the fruit. do you not think their viewpoints made an impression upon us? now take the other side of it...non blacks elders were the chief influence in their lives. chances are our generation (30 and 40 somethings), have a sort of internal strife between the influences of our elders and the changes we desire for our children. so is slavery relevant? absolutely. does it deserve reparations? no, because that solves nothing. just like this bush "hush money" we're getting this year.
Rocket River: excellent post. you remind me of a good friend/co-worker I had back in the H. would your initials be "B.B."? just curious... your post speaks to what I referenced in my earlier post. the "village" raises the child. by village, it is the elders because they have the wisdom and experience. in this generation's case, we are attempting a shift in thinking. a shift going from segregation to unification. in order to accomplish this, it is imprative to completely understand the "Roots" of our mentalities.
Thanks. . . . . .not B.B. Understanding is the 1st step Various folx refuse to try to understand . . . as long as that refusal is in place. . . .understanding won't happen Rocket River
See, the thing is. At what point do the descendants of the rape victim stop blaming their ancestor's rape for their own problems? At some point in my lineage, one of my ancestors was probably raped by a man she really didn't like, or some conquering tribe or nation killed my ancestor's parents in front of their eyes. Can I blame them for my downfalls? Obviously American slavery still has its impact; I argue, however, that there comes a time when we have to become responsible for ourselves and not rely on the crutch of "well, the parents of our parents of our parents were really badly mistreated, that's why we're all poor and a large portion of us aren't happy with our lives." Fact: many immigrants to this country are and were mistreated. Do you think it was fun for the Chinese coolies who were forced to work on the American railroads? Do you think it's a fun time for Latino illegal immigrants today? They come here, live in poor conditions, are constantly afraid of the police catching them and deporting them, and therefore their employers can pay them much less; they have to scramble for a living. Should their descendants in 100 years say "well, our ancestors were mistreated and therefore I demand reparations while being disinterested in improving ourselves and adopting values that will help us succeed in life?"
To continue the Rape analogy . . .One rape .. . in a Life time . .. versus . .a systematic Raping of a people over generations . . . Rocket River . . it takes time . . 40 yrs is not a whole hell of alot of time . . by comparison
