Of course it's not the case... but getting the 13th or 14th pick don't mean we'll end up with crap, either. Like you said, the question is what kind of talent we can expect to from a draft after a 20 win season vs. a 40+ win season, and whether that's worth doing what it takes to get to 20 instead of 40 wins, and all the other consequences from winning 20 games. In the current Rockets situation, the difference between the pick you get for winning 20 games vs. the one you get for winning 40 games is probably not worth all the negatives (i.e. not getting any good free agents, losing attendance, losing revenue, having disgruntled players who want out, reduced trade value for players, etc.).
Totally true. So much negative comments as if the Rockets are doomed and have no chance at anything this year. All these negative comments in July.
Just because they are 1st pick overal does not mean they will be great. Bellow are a few of the top 50 NBA players of all time. I thing it is too early to throw away the season. I would rather wait to the trade deadline before we do what the Houston Rockets are know for Tanking for Olajuwon Territorial Pick 1950 Paul Arizin Territorial Pick 1959 Wilt Chamberlain 1st overall pick in the 1969 NBA Draft Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1st overall pick in the 1984 NBA Draft Hakeem Olajuwon 1st overall pick in the 1992 NBA Draft Shaquille O'Neal 1st overall pick in the 1968 NBA Draft Elvin Hayes 1st overall pick in the 1987 NBA Draft David Robinson 1st overall pick in the 1985 NBA Draft Patrick Ewing 1st overall pick in the 1958 NBA Draft Elgin Baylor 1st overall pick in the 1979 NBA Draft Magic Johnson 1st overall pick in the 1982 NBA Draft James Worthy 2nd overall pick in the 1954 NBA Draft Bob Pettit 2nd overall pick in the 1981 NBA Draft Isiah Thomas 2nd overall pick in the 1956 NBA Draft Bill Russell 2nd overall pick in the 1965 NBA Draft Rick Barry 2nd overall pick in the 1960 NBA Draft Jerry West 2nd overall pick in the 1966 NBA Draft Dave Bing 3th overall pick in the 1984 NBA Draft Michael Jordan 3th overall pick in the 1950 NBA Draft Bob Cousy 3th overall pick in the 1963 NBA Draft Nate Thurmond 5th overall pick in the 1984 NBA Draft Charles Barkley 5th overall pick in the 1987 NBA Draft Scottie Pippen 5th overall pick in the 1967 NBA Draft Walt Frazier 6th overall pick in the 1978 NBA Draft Larry Bird 6th overall pick in the 1960 NBA Draft Lenny Wilkens 6th overall pick in the 1957 NBA Draft Sam Jones 12th overall pick in the 1972 NBA Draft Julius Erving 13th overall pick in the 1996 NBA Draft Kobe Bryant 13th overall pick in the 1985 NBA Draft Karl Malone 14th overall pick in the 1983 NBA Draft Clyde Drexler 16th overall pick in the 1984 NBA Draft John Stockton 2nd Round 19th pick in the 1970 NBA Draft Nate Archibald 3rd round 40th pick in the 1974 NBA Draft George Gervin
rockets are gonna make the playoffs... and i believe the rockets should go after flip murray currently an unrestricted free agent that can fill in the void at sg until t-mac returns.. enjoy clutchfans..... <object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/A2P3HaRWf0U&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/A2P3HaRWf0U&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
getting picks 4-12, is not bad, but getting a star player in those spots is very iffy. I'm not saying you automaticaly get at star in the 1-4 spots, but you have a better chance at it.
If a team has great scouting and a good gm, they can get a really good player in the lotto or move the pick for a player. The suns picked amare and marion at 9. The goal is to get a all star when you're in the lotto. The guy doesn't have to be a all star every year, but he should make it 4 times or so in his career. Some teams can go there and hit it seems like everytime. Orlando pulled shaq,howard, and penny out of the lotto. It just depends especially if there is no clear cut #1.
I don't believe that people think that getting into the lottery is bad because you might not get the one pick, they are disappointed because of the possibility of us tanking to get into the lottery. I can't imagine how terrible watching a team tank games would be. Hopefully, our young players develop very well, and can recieve some hard earned minutes. Either way, I hope the Rockets make the right decision, whatever it is.
Since they had the #1 pick all 3 of those years, I wouldn't say that it was difficult for Orlando to "hit every time" in that scenario. They also drafted Fran Vasquez #11, Reese Gaines #15, Stephen Hunter #15, Keyon Dooling #10, and Michael Doleac / Keon Clark back to back at #12 / 13, in the years they haven't gotten the #1 pick. I wouldn't give their scouting department THAT much credit...
Tanking doesnt guarantee you anything. Why waste a horrible season when you cant even guarantee you get a top 3 pick. Look at Washington, they were awful this year and turned that horrible season into Mike Miller and Randy Foye. Hardly a franchise turn around scenario. If the Rox dont make the playoffs and end up in the lotto that is fine. But if they dont play hard and tank games, everyone would lose interest. The dead toyota center would be even worse. Especially since Yao is already out, and half the reason fans loved the Rox last year was they tried so hard all the time.
This is just the wrong forum! The Rockets have way too much talent and too many good players to be in the lottery next year or especially one of the top lottery picks. T
The whole point of hiring a guy like Morey is because he can find gems in the haystack, but he's not a miracle worker. The higher the pick the more flexibility he has, and Morey is flat out scary when he's got flexibility. And tanking doesn't mean throwing games. It means clearing cap space, developing younger players, and avoiding the mistake of acquiring aging stars, in order to win a few extra games along the way.
I don't support tanking but I'm totally against keeping Scola and Battier on the team. We should trade them for young players who can develop in the upcoming season playing with Brooks, Lowry, Ariza, Budinger, Taylor, Landry and maybe Dorsey. The average age of this team should be low and we should keep CHEAP but high charcter veterans around to teach the kids and to warn them of the perils of gaining a losing mentality. I completely trust that Morey is one of the best, if not the best, GM in the league when it comes to the draft. With Boston and Houston, he has shown that he knows how to find the best player. If we are losing, I want to ensure that the 82-game season is not wasted on tried and tested veterans, but on younger people who can take that experience into next season and become better players as a result of the experience. Battier and Scola will bring a couple of more wins, but will not improve. If you have a young team that ends up in the lottery, great. If the young team shocks you and does really well, then you don't need as high a pick to improve for the following season. Most of all, a young and exciting team with a lottery pick and a returning Yao will be a better proposition to FA's than an already-built team into which they would have to find their place. So don't throw games, but throw a bunch of youngsters out there, coach the hell out of them, and see how it goes. That way it's a win-win. I have hopes that Morey will trade Battier and maybe Scola at the deadline once the team is up and running.
I agree with most of that and that's what I have been trying to say all along. We don't need to tank, but we can use this as an opportunity to develop our youth, get younger, and let Morey do his thing. Lets face it, we dont have a chance to win it all next year. I understand that there are negatives to losing, but if we are a young scrappy team... A lot of people will still come to watch us. I would rather watch a young team develop, than watch a bunch of aging vets barely get us into the playoffs just to get destroyed in the first round. no thanks
Making moves for the long term do not mean tanking. It would seem like the Rockets are doing much of this anyway-- and I don't really expect them to be a 20 win team after their summer moves. The team made moves along the like you suggested-- they avoided taking on contracts that may work next season, but hurt the team in years thereafter. For example, they essentially swapped out an older Artest for a younger Ariza. They also purchased picks for Budinger, Taylor and Llull. By the way, I don't think the signing of Andersen qualifies as a "short term" move, either. Whatever else happens, it's not like the team doesn't need a backup big guy in 2010 or 2011, and it's not like Andersen would be too old at age 30 or 31. Getting a decent backup big for $2.5 million a year is an "any year" move, not just a "win now" or "win later" move. The roster is far from "aging"-- even the oldest rotation guys like Battier, Scola and now Andersen are not that old. We are certainly not talking Jon Barry, David Wesley and Bob Sura here. The team does not really have a significant contract they don't want lasting past next season. I suppose one can argue that Morey can swap out Battier for younger guys or picks-- and he might do that (see alleged interest in Rubio), but there would seem little point in dumping him for, say, a mid to late 1st rounder right now before you know exactly who is available at that position when, even in 2010 and a few years beyond, the expected utility of Battier in his 30s is likely higher than that fo a mid to late 1st round pick. Morey has picked well, but luck is still a big part of any draft. So, does this mean they'll lose a ton of games if no more moves are made? Who knows? I am expecting they won't. I think at this point, unless a good opportunity arises, they might just allow nature to run its course and see how good this roster is before making a decision.
I agree that Morey is more or less doing the task for developing young players and sacrificing winning a few extra games this season to develop them with an eye of them improving to help out Yao and Tmac when they come back after this season. Its great to see Morey having the long term vision instead of going all in this season even without the services of Yao and Tmac. Not offering Artest a contract was a great move, even though we might have been able to get a little more by signing and trading him instead. There is really no need to pick up veterans with big contracts right now unless they are still in their prime when Yao comes back, but even then it'd be probably better to sign them next offseason. But I really think Battier should be flipped for a few younger building pieces. Sure, he can still definitely help out when Yao and tmac comes back, but wouldn't any decent veteran we sign next offseason? Battier sounds to me like a really redundant piece right now. sure, I love his play, and I think he'd be a vital piece if we were to win a championship. But say for this seaon, where we are by no means guaranteed, so Battier would be essentially wasting a season of his prime years. His value can only go down as if his team isn't built to win, his role is significantly less noted. He needs stars around him to make him look good and make his game worthwhile. Next season we'll have Ariza who has already proven he can do exactly what Battier is meant to do. Ariza often guarded the opponents best wing player giving Kobe some much needed rest and isn't that what Battier was brought in exactly to do? In my opinion, Ariza will be great when Yao comes back and we're back in contention. Its better to trade Battier while his value is still high. its not going to get much higher than it currently is. If we can get a veteran like Caron Butler or Luol Deng, you do the deal. No doubt about it. Those players can make a bigger impact now, and would make a bigger impact to the team when Yao comes back. Ariza is the next Battier. So trade Battier while we can.
I don't think people realize the value of a guy like Battier when you have a young developing team. Being a professional athlete doesn't come with a manual. Battier is the definition of a professional and can teach our young players how to succeed in this league for years. I think having him here NOW to teach our young core how to be a professional is far more important to our success in the future than getting somebody like Caron Butler or Deng here to teach our guys how to be a bunch of screw-ups. I think this is exactly why Artest is gone, Morey and RA didn't want him here being a distraction to our young core. There is far more to being an NBA player and an asset to a team than what you see on the basketball court. Showing an incoming young player that you can get a 7 million dollar contract and be one of the best perimeter defenders in the league with hard work and dedication being your two biggest "skills" is pretty valuable IMO.
Which "decent veteran" are we talking about? It's a little hard to project a year into the future. Much easier decision when you are actually looking at what's out there in terms of both available free agent, and who you can realistically draft with those picks. You can always trade Battier later in the season or right before the draft. In the mean time, I would argue that keeping Battier around is good for the "development" of young players. Experience winning rather than lose 60 games is good for the developmetn of Brooks, Landry Ariza Lowry, etc., so is having teammates who play the right way. Doing the early 2000s Clippers thing of pretty much nothing but youngsters and handing them minutes just because didn't exactly work out for that team.
I think it was just 1 game. The Rockets were definitely trying to lose to a minny team without KG but Minny was trying to tank more. They put Madsen in at starting center and JVG had Bogans as there man scoring. In the end JVG was outcoached even in losing and cost as Brandon Roy. Out of all the screwed up things he did as a Rocket that has to rank as one of the worst. Brandon Roy is a franchise player Battier is a role player.
Hind sight is 20/20 and nobody could have predicted: 1. How the lotto would play out. 2. Who would fall to our pick. 3. What trades would be made on draft day. 4. Ten thousand other things that happened betweeen that game and the draft. Blaming JVG for "costing us Brandon Roy" because we beat a crappy team is just plain asinine.... The Chinese invented gun powder, do you want to blame them for the death of John Lennon?
