I find it impressive that 1 in 4 are willing to risk their life to vote. That means a decent percentage of the population has hope for their nation, and are willing to risk all to help improve it. The FACT is a democratic vote will take place. You can speculate endlessly about what it means when only 1 in 4 vote under threat of death, or what it means for Iraq in 20 years. Doesn't change the fact that an election will be taking place. I think it's pretty exciting for the Iraqi people.
Even that part of it will be selective and will not hold if a anti-US candidate wins. Do you think that we will let a Baathist run for leadership of Iraq? Of course not!! I am definitely not saying that a Baathist would win a fair election in Iraq. As a matter of fact, I think a Baathist candidate would lose handily. Nevertheless, we won't even let a Baathist run in the election for fear that he MIGHT win. You know every insurgent and insurgent supporter in Iraq would vote to return Iraq to its pre-insurgency state and that might tip the scales. I really wish we would let everyone run in the election. That would truly show the world that the people of Iraq want to be free because they will pick the pro-democracy candidate over the tyrant. The election in Iraq is a start, but is by no means a "free" election nor is it a democratic one. When candidates are handpicked, it goes back to being a Castro-type election. The Iraqi election will not be an "election", but rather a referendum.
Again liberals, consistantly explaining how the glass is half empty "1 in 4 is not a representative sample" Conservatives, glass half full "1 in 4 is a whole lot more representative then 0 in 4." 1 in 4 would be a larger turnout then that which elected the first President of the United States.
I think this election is just to elect parties, who select candidates to help write the constitution. Then I think the 1st "election" is in November after the framework is set (Constitutiuon written, etc).
I have to agree with this. I think its a great first step, is it perfect NO, but its a start. It amazes me that people are risking their life to vote especially after everything they`ve been through.
Cohen, I want to say something real quick without off-tracking the direction of the thread... I wanted to apologize to you earlier for "you know why", and the fact was I realized that I was wrong in the exchange of bicker. I was trying to save face. You are far from perfect as anyone is, and I don't always agree with certain stances, but I realize what elevates your position is that you are always fair, and that is all I ask for and have respected...
Lincoln on the 1864 Presidential Election Response to a Serenade November 10, 1864 It has long been a grave question whether any government, not too strong for the liberties of its people, can be strong enough to maintain its own existence in great emergencies. On this point the present rebellion brought our republic to a severe test; and a presidential election occurring in regular course during the rebellion added not a little to the strain. If the loyal people, united, were put to the utmost of their strength by the rebellion, must they not fail when divided, and partially paralized (sic), by a political war among themselves? But the election was a necessity. We can not have free government without elections; and if the rebellion could force us to forego, or postpone a national election it might fairly claim to have already conquered and ruined us. The strife of the election is but human-nature practically applied to the facts of the case. What has occurred in this case, must ever recur in similar cases. Human-nature will not change. In any future great national trial, compared with the men of this, we shall have as weak, and as strong; as silly and as wise; as bad and good. Let us, therefore, study the incidents of this, as philosophy to learn wisdom from, and none of them as wrongs to be revenged. But the election, along with its incidental, and undesirable strife, has done good too. It has demonstrated that a people's government can sustain a national election, in the midst of a great civil war. Until now it has not been known to the world that this was a possibility. It shows that, even among candidates of the same party, he who is most devoted to the Union, and most opposed to treason, can receive most of the people's votes. It shows also, to the extent yet known, that we have more men now, than we had when the war began. Gold is good in its place; but living, brave, patriotic men, are better than gold. link: http://www.nps.gov/liho/writer/1864.htm The confederate states didn't vote in 1864. Of course, under Saddam Iraq had 100% voter participation.
Realism and Neoconservatism are not the same thing. A realist would probably NOT have intervened in Iraq - certainly would not have intervened in Iraq by fabricating or completely misreading intelligence. If there was no threat then there's no reason to intervene. Neoconservatives would, because ultimately they WANT democracy to spread - even Hersh says this.
Did we let Nazis run for office after WWII? Uh, no. Does that mean their movement back to democracy was a sham? No. I agree with you that the election is but a start, however. This a start - and that's a good thing.
Well, the election in Iraq has started! I think everybody can agree this is a step in the right direction. If you want to see an interesting bit of feedback, go to the bbc (yes, I know it's a biased left-leaning rag) and read the feedback from readers on the election. It's interesting to note that every single Iraqi who commented was in favor of the elections. All the detractors were those who live in the countries that hate Bush the most. To them, their hatred of Bush obscures everything else.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/29/us.iraqis.vote.ap/index.html Iraqis dance for joy in Nashville Saturday, January 29, 2005 Posted: 5:23 PM EST (2223 GMT) NASHVILLE, Tennessee (AP) -- Abdul al-Najr woke up early Saturday with his wife, piled into a car with three friends and drove 250 miles from St. Louis to the polling place here, where jubilant Iraqis danced and held hands in the steady, cold rain. "I'm so happy because I'm human," al-Najr, 38, said after casting a ballot for the first time in his life. "I get to say I'm human now." On the second day of voting for Iraqi expatriates, people drove hundreds of miles to reach the five U.S. cities with polling places: Nashville, Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles and Washington. More than 5,000 Iraqis voted on Friday, and organizers expected larger crowds over the weekend. In Nashville, which has the largest Kurdish community in the nation, about 20 Kurds celebrated by dancing and waving flags in the rain. The men and women broke into a line dance called the badine with traditional music blaring from a car's speakers. Children waved flags to signify Kurdistan, while several teenage boys wore Iraqi soccer jerseys and had their faces painted like the national flag. "It is celebration because for the first time they taste the freedom of this country," said George Khamou, of Little Rock, Ark., who watched the dancers. "This is really a big celebration for all of us here -- the Kurdish, the Arabs, the Christians, everybody. "All we say now is all of us are Iraqis, because we are all the same." Voters had their right index finger dipped in ink as a safeguard against voting fraud, then dropped paper ballots into boxes. "They're thrilled to have the ink on their finger as a badge that they voted," said Kathleen Houlihan, the Chicago spokeswoman for the International Organization for Migration, which is helping coordinate the vote. "It's history in the making." Nearly 26,000 people have registered to vote in the United States. Tens of thousands more are expected to vote in 13 other countries during balloting that runs through Sunday, the same day as elections in Iraq. One busload of about 50 Iraqis traveled from Lincoln, Nebraska, to cast their ballots Saturday in Rosemont, Illinois, about 20 miles northwest of Chicago, while other voters arrived from Iowa, Missouri and Indiana. Turnout was steady in sunny Irvine, California, where voters clapped and cheered as fellow expatriates completed their paper ballots. "I never thought I could put the words together, Iraq and vote," said Mona Oshana, 36, who has lived in Phoenix since she was a child. "We have left (Iraq), but we have not forgotten them." Bako Darwesh, 5, and his little brother Dana, 2, splashed around in mud puddles while first their mother, Samiir, and then their father, Sherko, voted in Nashville. "Everything is excellent (here)," said Sherko Darwesh of Memphis. "But the situation is difficult there (in Iraq). We hope that they will be safe, we hope." Iraq's president warned that fears about security there would prompt many to stay home rather than vote in the nation's first election in half a century. Mortar rounds landed at least one polling site in the region south of Baghdad overnight. In Australia, fistfights broke out at a polling station Saturday when a group of Islamic extremists chanted slogans against those casting ballots. But in the United States, Iraqis were thrilled to be voting for the 275-member assembly that will draft Iraq's new constitution. Arkan al-Hasnawi, 33, of LaCrosse, Wisconsin, has spent the last two weeks in Nashville staying with his family and brother Thaban, 38. "It's a long time we've been waiting for vote," Arkan al-Hasnawi said. "Everybody is excited to vote, everybody should get that chance -- to vote for a new Iraq." Both brothers were hopeful Iraq could be unified like it was before Saddam Hussein's regime. "If we get right person, then he can run the country right and everybody will be happy," Thaban al-Hasnawi said.
Some of the greatest photo's I have seen. American's should stand proud of their accomplishments. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6884286/displaymode/1107/s/2/
