No, they are not a bunch of boy scouts, but Hezbollah came into being out of necessity, so blame the Israelis for that one.
it highlights the point that 'aggression against neighbors' isn't limited to any particular country. and in the case of the mid east israel would certainly be one of the most aggressive threats to its neighbors in the mid east. from what i recall the UN doesn't include hezbollah as a terrorist group. i fail to see why iran would have to honor the US's list, especially since US/iran dont have diplomatic relations.
Iran could fail to honor terrorism. That would be a start for their theocracy. I really don't give a good damn whether that government loves us, likes us, dislikes us, or hates us. I care about what the Iranian people think, and they are being abused by the theocracy. One day, I have no doubt, they will do to it what they did to the Shah's regime. I will be applauding when they do, should I live that long. We cannot allow the theocrats to obtain atomics. I truly hope that they see reason, and abide by the international treaties they have signed regarding this issue. Our own government has helped not at all, by making us look weak, and in fact doing more than that. They have weakened our military, weakened us by alienating a host of our allies of decades standing, and tossed into the trash heap the near universal goodwill the world showered us with after 9/11. I'll repeat myself yet again... if Bush had not made his mad adventure in Iraq, we would be looked upon with far greater respect, and fear, by those who style themselves as our enemies. He and his cadre of lackeys and radicals have made so many mistakes that graduate students will have more than they can handle for the next 50 years writing about them. One topic alone will fill their plate to the rim... why so many otherwise good and intelligent people supported him, and the radical wing of his party, for so long after it had become clear that their policies, foreign and domestic, were bankrupt. Keep D&D Civil.
That's just too funny. Er...please explain to us dolts why Israel decided...on a whim apparently...to invade Lebanon.
Geez.. its like this.. They didn't feel like fasting during Yom Kippur so they decided to start a war
Well, i would say that this is a case of making excuses for terrorism. The whole, well - it's Israel's fault and that makes it ok in some way. personally, I don't know the history of Hezbollah - but they are pretty clearly linked to terrorism from what I understand.
How is he making excuses for terrorism? He never justified it. There's a reason Hezbollah came into existance. Whether or not you agree with their reason is completely irrelevant. That was the reason the group formed. They didn't just come into existance because they thought it was fun.
Actually, saying they came into existence 'out of necessity' and 'blame Israel for that one' is justifying said existence.
Would it be a better explanation, no matter whether it's true or not, that they decided to form the group "out of blue", or simply because they "hate the democracy in Isreal"? Nowadays, people can't even try to reason, without running into the danger to be put into certain buckets or questioned about motives. In my opinion, to criticize Dems ran a poor campaign to let GWB win the first time, doesn't justify the mess he's made; to criticize Dems ran even a worse campaign to let GWB win the second term, doesn't justify GWB making things even worse, or possibly planning another war. There must be a reason for everything, even those therorrists, they became what they are for a reason. I don't think God made them one at the time they were born. I guess it's a tabu to mention Isreal or US in any reasoning of not so good things. Otherwise, you will be justifying those not so good things.
No actually it is not that 'clear' that they are a terrorist group, as they have been banned by some countries and others not. Hezbollah is more so a para-military group (unofficial army of Lebanon if you will) than a 'traditional terrorist' group that carries out terrorist attacks against civilians (i.e. Hamas). There isn't any universal agreement on what Hezbollah should be classified as, although the US and Israel do ban them. I should add that as far as I am concerned, they are an extremist militant group, although they are not our problem, and I don't think it would be wise to 'mingle' in their or Lebanon's affairs (although it might be too late for that)
Yup, I justified their existence for an obvious reason: they were necessary to defend Lebanon against the aggression/invasion of the Israeli army. So at the time, yes, they were justified.
Uhh, where did I say anything about "justifying existance." He accused Tiger of "making excuses for terrorism." Or are we going to have to play the semantics game all over again like last time? There's a reason behind everything. Stating that reason doesn't mean you are justifying the actions of that group. Would you rather just believe that all the violence in the Mid East is a result of a love for fighting? Because that's what your comments lead me to believe, as do NewYorker's. This is why we have the whole "they hate us for our freedoms" bullsh*t going around. Any attempt of objective analysis is gunned down as sympathizing with terrorism.
One failure of that logic is when you defined a simplistic and consistent cause/effect relationship...e.g., you are saying: 'God did not make terrorists at birth...so if terrorists exist who attack a country, then that country must be responsible for their creation'. Hmmm....God did not make impoverished people who mug people for money, so it's the rich person's fault that they were mugged? God did not make communists, anarchists, fascists, or dictators at birth, so they are all the Free World's fault? . . . Getting back to the Palestinian/Israeli question. Both sides have made mistakes and done terrible things. One side blames the Israelis for Palestinian suicide attacks. A ridiculous hypothetical: if the Israelis decided to nuke the Palestinian areas, should the other side blame the Palestinians? After all, God did not make Israelis fear for their family's lives. Terrorism and nukes are both just plain wrong, yet when you go down that slippery slope where is it that you stop?
Saying 'blame Israel for that one' and claiming the group grew out of 'necessity' is not an objective view, period. Therefore Tigermission's statement was not an objective reporting of facts as you assert. 'That reason' is an opinion. Those are not semantic games. Words have meaning. Claiming it was out of necessity and that the situation is Israel's fault IS a justification of the existence of Hezbollah. Your analysis is just off. Tigermission's subsequent post shows how ridiculous you're being. btw: there is plenty of substantive evidence to suggest that AQ and their ilk DO hate the west and our conception of freedom so I'm not sure where your attitude comes from... Tigermission went beyond hypothesizing about 'a reason' and into the territory of justifying that reason. Those are two distinct actions. One can make an observation without editorializing, presumably. He didn't do that. Hence your point is baseless. There is a reason, yes obviously. It's not taboo to make an observation of fact, nor even to voice an opinion. You and thecabbage are just confused as to the difference between the two.
You stopped me right there! I wasn't saying, but you ARE the one who said that. I said God didn't make them at birth, there MUST be A reason. It could well be that I posted in D&D, or anything else. If you want to debate, please be honest.
Now you are just being dishonest. Hezbollah was not a reaction to the Israeli invasion of Lebanon? Provide a 'rebuttal' if you care, no reason to label people unless you fail to make a counter-argument, so try to avoid that. Provide proof to the contrary and I am willing to listen.
Everyone's opinion is objective, including you and me. Absolute subjectivity doesn't exist. If someone always claims that his/her opinion is very subjective, the only conclusion I can draw is that person is NOT subjective at all. He used some known facts, his knowledge, his observation, and combined with his logic and thoughts, to form his own opinion, which is no pure fact. But that's no difference than you and me. We all form our own views that way. Same standard should be applied to different group of people, topic, or events, even if it involves US, Isreal, Iran, or terrorists or any other group. We debate different views, not facts. However, I still hope debates are based on different views, arguments, theories, rather than accusation or second-guessing others' motives. "Justifying terrorism" is pretty heavy for my taste, maybe not for you.
