No one questions that....what is being questioned is Ottoman's desire for an affirmative action program for Jews. I find that absurd as they are not a disadvantaged group. To Ottoman, that means I'm a vicious evil Nazi. I guess we should support affirmative action for Jews or we are being anti-semites.
No Religion or race has a Perfect track-record. But i dont believe the theory that the "jews " are behind the War in Iraq and they are controlling the US foreign policiy. that is a blame it on the jews mentality which has been around even before hitlers facsit nazi party created. they jews have been everyones punching bag for far too long. i belive it's a plauge. blame it on the jews....
I don't think anyone here has even hinted that the Jews were behind the war in Iraq or they control u.s. foreign policy. Thank goodness they don't. The Jews have sufferred immensely...but a few Jews like to carry it around like a medal and accuse anyone of disagreeing with them of being a racist. Fortunately, the vast majority of Jews are not like Ottamon.
I agree with you're originall point that there not ' disadvantaged" whatsoever .. but conversly, people gotta give'm that they got to there position by hardwork and there will to successed.
Great point and very perceptive. Ottomaton's and Cohen are presenting an excellent argument regarding why Holocaust denial is dangerous but I think y'all are missing the main point of this cartoon show. Holocaust denial is the subject of it but not the reason of why Ahmednijad put on this show. What this show is about is to try to prove the hypocrasy of the Western societies in regard to free speech. Holocaust denial is a favorite of Ahmednijad but the reason why he chose that topic was to find a topic that he knew most western societies would find very offensive so he can turn around and say "your arguments about free speech are hollow when there are subjects that you react to the way that we react to the cartoons of Mohamed. So when you criticize us you are hypocrites." He could've chosen another subject and if this issue had been between Muslims and the PRC he probably would've had cartoons on the Rape of Nanking. Holocaust denial is one that he knows very well is a touchy subject and what he would like nothing better to see is non-Muslims in the streets of America and Europe getting angry and violent over these cartoons and public condemnations from political and religious leaders like Muslmis were over the Mohamed cartoons. At the risk of being a jackoff I don't think we should give that rhetorical ammo to Ahmednijad. I understand what you are saying Ottomaton about the danger of Holocaust denial and those ideas becoming like weeds but there is also the principle of free speech and that we counter hateful speech not by suppressing it but through more free speech. So while these cartoons are offensize I think it would go a long way towards showing Iran and other Muslims societies that Western societies tolerate even speech and ideas that even majority of its socieites find deeply offensive and that displeasure towards such ideas is shown through peaceful protest and dialogue rather than violence.
At several points in this thread I have found attributed to myself several ideas that were not mine. Perhaps I am not as articulate as I would like to think I am. I never have at any point ever in my life or this thread advocated denial of free speech, except in obvious "fire in the theater situations" and then with a great reluctance. I do advocate never letting anyone sneak through their hateful lies through without a challenge. I also advocate that when one sees the more dangerous and seductive lies that one should redouble one's efforts in responding. That is all.
Pretty thick-headed, eh? Showing repulsion for ridiculing the deaths of 6 million humans SHOULD NOT BE MADE A JEWISH ISSUE. It is a HUMAN issue. It is not a issue which should not be ridiculed or critiqued because many of the victims were Jewish, but because there is NO PURPOSE BEHIND IT OTHER THAN HATE. There is not right/wrong debate on a holocaust...this is not a 'hands-off' topic because they were Jewish, but because they were HUMANS.
You cannot know what's in Ahmednijad's head...whether he's just trying to make a 'free speech' point or take the opportunity to perpetuate hatred of Jews ... which he has espoused previously...hmmm. He's not some Joe on the street, he's the leader of a Nation which is on shaky terms at best with Israel. What's the result of his childish, hateful action? He makes the world less secure. National leaders can certainly say what they want, and subsequently their people and others will pay the price for that 'freedom of speech'.
Are the Jewish people rioting in the street over these cartoons? Israel - 1 Muslim Theocracies - 0 DD
The difference between this incident and the Danish incident is the Iranian cartoons are state sponsored. They are not examples of free speech, they are propaganda. In the Danish newspaper you are likely to see cartoons harpooning Danish institutions. You will not see the Iranian government supporting or even allowing cartoons commenting on the absurdities of Islam. (there are ironies and absurdities in every institution)
Why Would anyone expect any logic out of a man who was an interogator and in some cases an executionist at the begin of the Revolution. he is a cold-blooded-killer. the man has no regards for human life.
The Hostage taker accusation more then valid. but there is many iranian Airforce pilots who were prosecuted and imprisoned have no doubt that Ahmadinejad was an excutionar. i met two pilots who live in iran, but came here onnvacation have told me they heard he had killed many of there commarades.
In this case, it's purpose is a response to the Danish Cartoons...that much is clear. For the record, no one hear denies the holocaust occurred. I think 6 million is the right number, and I think the holocaust ranks as the worst evil ever perpetuated upon a people in the history of mankind. But, this is about people. It's about how it's ok to mock Muslims in the western press but it's not ok to mock Jews. Is there Jews on the street protesting these cartoons? I bet there would be if they got printed in major newspapers - don't you? And there should be protests. That's the whole point!
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14121008/?GT1=8404 The concept is absurd. It is to be noted that India and Israel are strong diplomatic and military allies.
