I may have an idea that may solve the Rockets current problems. Our team WAS built around our guards being able to beat people off the dribble in an iso style offense. We had a power forward that could score in the post(MoT), and a small forward that could supposedly compensate for MoT's defensive liabilities with his shot blocking skills and provide some additional rebounding. This was supposed to create a synergistic forward combo. Cato was our dirty work guy, clogging the lane, rebounding, shot blocking. This team WAS headed in the right direction as shown by our 45 win season. Even though we did not make the playoffs, we had a solid record that would have put us around the 5th seed in the Leastern conference. A wrench (albeit a good one) was thrown into the mix when our ping pong balls came up and we got Yao. The problem is we no longer have a dirty work guy, which we obviously need at the 4, and our guards have shown an inability to adjust their game to the new game plan. Additionally, the defensive rules have changed making iso's next to impossible to execute effectively on a consistent basis. We also lack consistent outside shooting needed to create the inside spacing to allow Yao to operate in the low post. Thus we seem to be regressing as the season progresses, which is horrilby frustrating. My solution is to trade Francis. Know, I love Francis. He has great enthusiasm for the game. He seems to be a great guy, and he is a phenomal athlete. He is also a terrific player, not neccessarily a terrific point guard. He also seems to be lacking alot on the defensive end. I propose that we trade to Francis to the Heat for Caron Butler and a first round pick. Francis is a BYC palyer which mean we could only trade him for a player that makes half his salary. If we traded him for a VERY promising rookie it may work. We may also need to take on a bad contract for some of our role player to make it work under the cap rules. I want the pick to be for next year to packcage with our pick to attempt to pick up TJ Ford. This would give us a true point, a talented role player in Mobes, Butler at the 3 to put with Yao. Now for the 4, we could offer GR plus what ever needed to make it work for Grant. This give us a tough dirty work guy inside. He is over paid and a little older, BUT his contract should be up around the time we will need to renew Yao's, and he might be able to provide a tutor for EG. This would also take some of the pressure of EG, and allow him some time to develop. Alternatively, Cato and EG could be packeged to attempt to get a good banger form the Eastern Confernce at the 4. Cato should be attractive to Eastern conference teams due to the lack of ANY centers in the East and you sell Eddie on his potential - ie he has tremendous ability this just wasn't the right fit blah, blah, blah. Line-up would be Ford, someone for the MCE or trade MoT for a backup, Norris as last resort. Mobely, Jon Berry perhaps? Butler, Nachbar Grant? Other player that fits above criteria, EG or MoT if kept Yao, Collier (remember Hakeem's back ups palyed very few minutes, and eventually Yao will rarely come out) For next year our PG position could be filled via MCE or trade of MoT. Any thoughts or other suggestions? If Rudy T's illness causes him to retire - I vote for Del Harris, Dunlavy, or Van Gundy (say what you want but he got the Knicks to paly hard EVERY night- something that is difficult to do around here lately)
Careful analysis, but FRANCIS will never be traded! The things that he has accomplished at this age have only been matched by Big O, Magic and Grant Hill (pre-ankle disaster). Francis is no doubt marketable, meaning he puts people in the seats, so why again would the Rockets trade him. TJ Ford as good as he will be is a rookie and I don't see the Rockets putting him at the helm as no doubt next season would then again be a predetermined "learning season". We're beyond rebuilding to that degree, if we need a point/combo (more offensive flow than Mobley provides), we should go get a vet.
Horrible trade idea. You don't trade a player who clearly IS and WILL BE the best player in the trade. Francis no matter how you look at him is a proven All-Star. He may not meet our high expectations of him (I think i.e. become a true leader and probably MVP candidate) but you don't give him away for unproven medicore players. I would only trade Francis for 3 types of players: 1. Proven MVP caliber superstar (Jason Kidd?) 2. Proven All-Star who may become better than Francis one day (Jermaine O'Neal?) 3. Potential superstar (Lebron James?) No disrespect, but your proposed team is horrible to say the least.
If you can't see that Steve HAS adjusted his game this year, there's not much to discuss. In fact, Francis has changed his game the MOST since Yao arrived, while Mobley still continues to hold the ball for five seconds on the wing, Moochie still dribbles the ball for 3/4 of the shot clock, Griffin still jacks up ill advised threes, Taylor still never passes out of the post. In November and December, Steve averaged 18.2 shots per game. In January, February, and March, he averaged 15 shots per game while increasing his assists...Now, since he's the point guard and handles the ball most of the time, he can basically shoot whenever he wants. If that isn't changing your game, I don't know what is. That's the problem with some posters. They too often say "the guards", like they're a package deal or something, thus making it easier to blame all of the team's troubles on them. Well, they're NOT the same person. They're individual, distinct players, and should be treated as such...
I think getting Butler would be interesting. Imagine Butler and Posey playing at the 2 and 3 spots, feeding off Yao for easy baskets. They both like to slash to the basket and can play off the ball better. And it will help us have a more Yao- oriented offense.
why dont us and the heat just switch teams? i would love to have tj ford, but you are guessing on a situation impossible to guess on. tj aint comming out this year and what if he stays for a senior year. even if he came out we have to see how the ping-pong balls go and than we have to see which team has the chance to pick him. no point in even discussing tj at this time. i do agree w/ you regarding francis though. b/c of his contract he isnt going anywhere for awhile, but i think its time to face the cold hard fact that he is not going to get us to the next level. he is a great player, but a lousy point guard. as far as moving him to the 2, no way. his d is not good against PG's...how do yall think he will fare against the elite scorers in the league (kobe, vince, stackhouse). it will be UGLY. francis has no natural position to play in the nba. bad point guard but too small to play the 2. therin lies the root of all our problems. cat is a solid 2. he is streaky, but is that not the nature of the shooter. and people b**** about his lack of passing, but isnt he 2nd on the team in assists w/ about 3/gm? he gets more assists than moochie. its a pipe dream, i know, but we must trade francis.
That is a crap trade and don't get me wrong, I love TJ, but if those guys can't pull it together in Miami, what's the point...
Francis will never be traded, and it is better to switch him to shooting guard than even thinking about moving him. Him and Yao are our future, what we need is dirty player who dives on for every loose balls and though defensively( an oakley or tyron hill type of guy) whether he's a small forward or power forward. And I wish we added point guard veteran a Avery joohnson kind a guy who doesn't have to play but who turned out to be a vocal leader in the locker room.
Are you freakin' nutz???? Francis is the best player on our team and you're suggesting we trade him for a rookie (No where close to the ROY Award) and a first round draft pick. And who would we pick? Another rookie such as Lebron James or T. J Ford? I don't think soo0o0o0.. T.J is not coming out next year and the chances of getting Lebron James is uhh no. Carmelo Anthony? maybe i like him, Dewayne Wade? yea he's good too. But for an All-Star player in the league such as Francis? NO!! Were you aware of how many games the Rockets lost last season without the Franchise?
First, I did not say "the guards" in a way to put them in any tpe of package. They are different people, but similar players. We have too much of the same thng. Good penetrators, decent outside shot, poor decision making, and weak defense. I don't feel that Mobely and Francis are the cause of our problems. I am disappointed in their adapting their games to playing with a big man. Francis HAS NOT shown dramatic improvement over the last 3 years PERIOD! Don't get me wrong, I do like Francis and if any genius out their can find a way to legitamately improve the team without trading him, let me know. I would be happy to keep him in a slightly altered role. I do not think Francis is a legit MVP canidate unless the light bulb goes on for him. He is undoubtedly one of the better athletes in the NBA. The Rockets LOVED Butler when they worked him out. The guy is a stud. I would love to trade Francis for an All-star caliber player, BUT IT CAN'T HAPPEN DUE TO THE FACT HE IS A BYC PLAYER! We can take a player that counts for half his salary in return. The way to get the most value is to get a stud that is still in their rookie deal. I did not say that the pick to be received would be for this year, if you read my post I said that we could sign a PG for the MCE forthis next season, similar to Minn did with Hudson. I am not in love with Ford. He is a great PG prospect that is incredibly qucik with terrific court vision. If you want to see what a qucik PG can do defensively watch game film of the 5'5" Earl Boykins harass Francis the last time we played GS! I AM NOT ANIT-FRANICS OR ANTI-ANY OF THE ROCKETS CURRENT PLAYERS. I am pro rockets, but this team pisses me off because they can play like morons at times. I think we have a collection of some excellent and some very good players. I DO NOT think we have a good team, ie thye do not play well together. And for the guy that siad I would be trading our roster for the Heat's, that's an ignorant statement. One of our's for 2 of theirs does not consitute a roster swap. If you would have read the whole post I said we COULD possibly add Grant, as he is a tough dirty work kind of guy that would provide some interior toughness that we are currently lacking. The purpose of my thread was to propse a trade that I felt would improve our TEAM, because that is what wins championships, a great team. MJ was hands down the best palyer in the game, and he didn't win a championship until he learned to be more a team player. He scored 63 in a playoff game, and they lost. Sometimes a collection of great players do not make a good team - look at the Hawks(who many analysts thought would make the playoffs in the East), the Blazers(deepest team talent wise in the league), or the Clippers.
Francis has made huge strides in becoming a better distributor of the ball, if anyone should be traded it is Mobley, he is a lesser version of Steve. The team needs to build around Yao and Steve, we need more role players like Cato and Hawkins, and Tmo..... We do not need players who demand the ball, we have Yao and Steve, now we need to get them complimentary pieces. DD
One more thing, Francis is an All-star, but he was voted in by the fans. Do you think he would be chosen as a starter over Nash or Marbury by the coaches. By the way I hate Marbury, but their isn't a better offensive PG in the game. In fortunately he has one of the biggest mouths as well. And I'll say it one more time, if ANYONE has a better idea of how to make out team better. I would love to hear it. This was simply an idea that could be plausibly pulled-off. Trading Mobely and Cato to the Clips for Brand, Miller, and Odom, and other such absurd trade proposals are a waste of time. Before suggesting a trade, ask yourself what are our weakness and how can we realistcally address them. That means, who do we have that would be coveted by other teams. For the guy said that I was taking a gamble with Ford, you are right, butif we had multiple picks next year, and for some odd reason Ford did not come out then we could trade a pick in that years draft for a pick in the next years. I think our weakness are at the 3&4 and the PG, and again that is not saying that SF is bad, just not a PG. I also am not in love with Mobely, but between them he is without a doubt a better defense player.
Da Dakota, I typically like your posts because you obvious put thought into them. I do think SF has improved, but he has not improved that much considering this is his 4th year. The thing about SF at point is he is distributing the ball better, but there are still far too many questionable decisions. Also, he defense has shown little sign of improvement. I would love to trade a package to the heat that included Mobely and others to get Butler and a first round pick, but I don't think they would go for that.
They call that dreamcasting, in fact, it's the definition of dreamcast in Websters, I just checked: Dreamcast (Dreem-kast): To fantasize as a home town fan (“homer”) on how to trade a role player, even a good one, for another team’s young Star (eg. Rox fan wanting to trade Mobley for someone such as Miami’s Caron Butler). I have no problem with being a homer, I'm one myself, but you have to realize it when you're dreaming up trades. Do this simple little trick, when thinking up a trade to determine if your idea is post worthy: Flip the table and say to yourself, "If I'm Riley and Houston called me with Mobley and they wanted Caron Butler, exactly how fast would I hang up on them?". Likely, as a homer, there will always be an answer to your own proposals when you flip the tables, such as, "immediately, in two seconds or (maybe even) four seconds". Any answer involving a hang up in less than 5 seconds does not warrant a post on the BBS. Land Sharks Rule #1 in trade proposal etiquette. But what do I know? I’m just a homer.
Land Shark echos my point. You can't get something for nothing. Francis has, by far, the best trade value of anyone on our team. I AM NOT saying he is the problem, but he presents a way to POTENTIALLY bring guys in to help fix them. Sometimes in the sports world you can get addition by subtraction. People probably thought Detroit was crazy for trading their best player for a couple very good roles players, and it seems to have worked out for them. The Nets did pretty well for themselves by trading their best player for Kidd. Now, before someone blasts me and say that NJ got an established player for Marbury, remember SF will be a base year compensation guy and this affects what we can take in return. I also want to say that Butler may not be the answer, but if the trade played out the way I would like then we could have a future perennial all-star in Butler, and a true PG. Another variation, pull the trigger on this trade, and attempt to trade for Parker(this is dependent on what Kidd does of course). I am just so PO'ed at their regression as the season has progressed that I no longer think this collection of players will ever make a cohesive team.
