Pgab, I did, I just don't see where the emotional scarring comes into play. I truly want to understand. Are you embarrassed that some of your ancestors were slaves? How does this scar you? I mean weren't all of our ancestors slaves at one point in our histories? I just don't understand....and would really like to. DD
No I'm not embarrassed of my history, but do you think black people are happy for most of us the only history we have a connection to is that our ancestors were treated like animals. That's why black educators try to promote positive reinforcement by teaching black kids about their ancestors who have made significant contributions to this country. But think about it DaDakota, in school, black kids learn about European history, Asian history, and the only thing they learn about Africa is slavery of their ancestors. That has a negative emotional affect. And for years that's all black kids were taught in school about their history. There is nothing to take pride in. Blacks don't connect to the American Revolution, the same way white kids connect to it. Its a complicated issue and I'm really not qualified to speak on it, I'm just pointing out that Robbie comparing his history to blacks in this country is ridiculous.
Interesting. When we were growing up, we learned about George Washington Carver, and were taught that Slavery was a horrible thing for people to go through. I do see your point about acheivement...I guess the answer would be to teach more about the successes and less about slavery. I don't know...seems like a vicious circle to me. DD
a bit off-topic, but i also notice another suborban race gap, between asians and whites. in the city i come from, cerritos (a suburb of LA), there is a marked difference between the academic performance of whites and asians. even though whites constitute nearly 60% of the overall city population, they constitute only 30% of the student body at the local magnet high school, and in the year i graduated, out of the 14 valedictorians and salutatorians, only 1 was white (a mixed native american at that too). and it is like this EVERY year. why are the white people consistently, almost systematically, outclassed? it might have something to do with economics. might have something to do with family values. might have something to do with culture. might have something to do with asians' willingness to spend just about ANYTHING for their kids' education... regardless, the outcome is definitely one-sided. just like it is with white people and black people... frankly i don't know how we can level the playing field... maybe we need to force the white people into govt-funded headstart and after-school programs to match the "study centre" and "home schooling" approach of asians? they've actually instituted quotas since my time to keep the number of white people in the magnet school respectable, but that seems to be just sheer lunacy to me... just my 2 cents...
there is a very clear cultural difference on emphasis of education among White Americans and Asian Americans. very clear. are there exceptions to the rule?? absolutely. but we're lying to ourselves if we say that certain cultures don't value certain things over others.
Very interesting read. The root of all evil is simply greed. If everything was freely and equally accessible for everyone this would be paradise.
True, this is all of America. But if they is a slightly higher prevalence in the black community of these things, wouldn't that explain the slightly lower academic achievment? You say that over 100 years of oppression is the reason. Can you explain exactly what effect slavery had on today's black community?
No offense, Mrs. V, but do we really need a study to figure this one out? Two parents is optimal. Period. One parent can get it done, for sure, but it's a heck of a lot harder, and less likely to happen. But even more important than the number of parents is parental attitude and expectations .... Ding ding ding. Bingo. We have a winner. I was trying to make the same point earlier in the thread in my response to pgabriel, but he declined to take the bait. When my now 10 year old boy was in second grade, he wasn't getting good grades and he performed incredibly badly on his standardized tests. At the beginning of the school year, his teacher called us in and suggested he was ADD. Not doing his work, not turning in assignments, not paying attention in class. The whole nine yards. We did not, however, immediately head to the pharmacy for his ritalin. We took the tough road instead. We told him he was a smart boy and we EXPECTED better. To back up our words, we took drastic action. We cancelled his birthday party. Yes, cancelled. We shut off the tv and video games. Yes, shut off, not cut back. My wife went into the school every day to make sure he had his homework assignment for the night (my wife is a full-time homemaker, this would be really hard for a single parent to do). We made sure he did his homework every night by checking it over. He read or we read together every night (not as much fun as playing ball). We went over his graded papers every week when he brought them home. None of this was easy. But we took the time and effort to show him that we cared, and made clear to him that he had to perform if he wanted all his privileges back. And he did. We have some good friends who were in the exact same situation we were. They didn't have the cojones to do what we did (you CANCELED your little boy's birthday party?????). Their kid is still on ritalin and a poor performer in school. It's all about parental commitment and attitudes, and not taking the easy way out.
You said it perfectly, Pipe. A child's success or failure is a direct reflection of their parent's commitment to them.
i hope you're kidding...i hope you can see the distinction between what Pole is talking about and what Marinovich's father did. i'm guessing you're kidding...right?
Not quite that extreme. However, I think a parent can balance a child's life with play and work. In my opinion, children should be prepared for adulthood long before they actually become adults. That's why I like the example that Pipe gave regarding his own. I would done the same thing (actually I lock away the Gameboy Advances and suspend allowances until further notice). When my children becomes adults someday, they will know the importance of responsibility and hopefully pass that to their own kids. At times my kids consider me an ogre, but hey at the same time they know no one loves them more than I do. More than them liking me I want them in a position to survive in the real world on their own.
Yes I was kidding about Todd Marinovich, I have never said that education doesn't begin at home. I'm fully aware of that, and no logically thinking human being would argue differently. I'm saying that blacks are behind in this aspect and it has a lot to do with our history. That's all, and yes that is something that needs to be improved in the black community, focus on education from an early age. I'm just arguing that there are more factors. Case in point, going back to slavery, it was illegal for slaves to be schooled. That policy had a negative impact on the black community that is slowly eroding away, but it did have its lasting affects. Another example, blacks in general up until the end of segregation, felt that it would be impossible to get a job that wasn't labor intensive. So why worry about education, that is another attitude that is slowly eroding away. There are cultural set backs that have to be overcome. Its easy to say I did such and such with my kids so I don't understand the difference. I'm not arguing for affirmative action or anything else in this thread, to me the article has nothing to do with that. It is about moving forward from the set backs of our history, that still affect lots of the black population.
The following is free for anyone to disagree with! I've not walked a mile in anyone else's shoes, so I have no idea if it's exactly right or not...it's merely my perception. I think because blacks have been so discriminated against in this country's history, they relate more as a community. They see things in relation to their part of that community. We tend to hear the phrase, "black community" quite a lot. We very rarely, if ever, hear anyone talk about the "white community." Growing up as a white kid, I never once thought of myself as a white kid. I never thought of that at all. I still don't. I see things from an individual standpoint. That's why people like me and Dakota talk about meritocracy...in our little world, that makes sense. But it may not make as much sense to someone who relates differently...or filters the world through a different perspective. Of course there are MANY white people who do see themselves as white, and thus, better in some way. My parents told me that was crap. I believed them. They were right. Seems to me...the trick is to keep working on this until one day MOST black kids grow up thinking as I did (man, that sounds arrogant -- i don' t mean it to!)...not seeing or thinking of themselves within the confines of the color of their skin. Make any sense at all?
MadMax, I agree, but the problem is that most people say that but whenever issues like this come up, the same conservatives who say that, group the black community in categories just as we do it to ourselves. Just go back and read some of the posts in this thread. As a black kid who went to a predominately white private school, I can tell you there is a lot of pressure to be black. And its not just black kids who make fun of you if you don't "act black", everyone has a perception of how black kids should act.
interesting...i don't have anything to add. except maybe this...i liked rap music a lot in high school...some of my friends "got" rap music...some didn't. those who didn't would sometimes say, "you think you're black." i remember one friend told me i should date a black girl instead of my white girlfriend since i'd probably have more in common with her tastes. he was joking..i think...but that was the only taste i can remember of that kind of "pressure." certainly nothing to compare to the situation you speak about. one of my closest friends in law school was a black homosexual. a great guy who i really enjoyed spending time with. he hated rap music and most of what mainstream would call "black" music. flat out hated it. he also hated sports...he thought it to be a waste of time. he was the exact opposite of every stereotype for black men i've ever seen. sometimes i thought he "hated" those things simply because he hated the stereotype. i haven't spoken with him in a while...i wish he posted here...he was easily the most liberal person i've ever known...but a person of true integrity.
Ok...I really don't get why the point about my ancestors is stupid. First of all...my history doesn't effect me one bit. It's nice to know that my ancestors are from Scotland, kind of like it is nice to know where Silly Putty came from. Meaning...it doesn't effect my life one way or the other and I don't really understand why it should bother anyone if they don't know their past. Your ancestors don't dictate who you are. I mean most people decended from slaves are more than likely from West Africa and West Africa is a complete train wreck for the most part. So I am going to guess your ancestors and my ancestors probably have a fair amount in common in the sense that they have been or were locked up in tribal warfare for much of their history. I am also going to guess that you have much more to be proud of as an American and further as a black American than you do as an person decended from West African slavery. So don't tell me you have nothing to be proud of if you want to look at your ancestry, culture, and history, because you have plenty here in America to be proud of even if you don't know specifically what person you decended from. And back to the article...was it wrong when the guy who wrote the article said black families devote more time to song and play than they do to reading to their children? Do you think that could be the cause of the gap in the article?
