Inside Account of Gitmo and Extraordinary Rendition

Is raping women and killing children OK in war, according to you?

 

I adhore war, nothing is "OK" with me in regards to war.

However, if you look at the history of war, you have to get down in the muck and mire to win the war.

I think the disconnect here is you guys are looking at it from a personal stand point, and I am viewing it from a clinical or historic perspective.

Nothing good about war, but if you are going to commit to fighting it, then you have to understand that heinous things are going to happen while you are fighting, and the side that is the meanest and willing to kill the most, and take the other sides will to fight away, is the one that wins.

What the US is currently doing is creating more problems by trying to engage a low collateral damage war, it is Vietnam all over again.

If you are going to fight, then do what you have to do.....to win, something I don't think the US has the stomach for - so IMO, they should be bailing OUT of the war and releasing those gitmo guys.....

DD

 

What historical context are you using to determine that the "meaner" side wins wars?

You think America and the Allies showed a "meaner" "nastier" resolve than the Germans and were more willing to get muck and kill people than the Nazis?

 

I do think the Russians and Americans had to get down and dirty to win that war, yes.

We fire bombed several cities, notably Dresden, and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians...and let's not forget Nagasaki and Hiroshima......

Yes, I do think the USA was nastier, and it led to victory and the peace we have today.

DD

 

there is no point in torture - as unethical as it was, even targeting of civilian areas like in WWII had a strategic goal (for the most part) - but torture serves no purpose and there is really no defense for it. there is almost universal consensus from experts in the field of interrogation as to the ineffectiveness of torture. your only justification is "they do it to us" and that is no justification. you are really no different from the terrorists you claim to want to fight.

where is there a historical precedent in this country for government-sanctioned torture, rape, sodomy and murder of POW's/"detainees"?

 

freudian slip?

 

What? Where did I say it was ok to torture? I have not, nor will I ever say that.

And Dresden was not a strategic target, you need to do some research and look at the stacks of dead burned civilians piled up after 3 days of incediary bombs to a city that was of little to no strategic value.

You are not making sense, I am not talking about any of that.

DD

 

The DaDakota mindset, explained:

Torturing prisoners is bad. Accordingly the only options are:

1) No war at all.
2) Wipe them out with impunity, ignoring any and all international treaties or moral issues that stand in the way.

If questioned about this strategy's obvious logical and ethical problems, ignore them and continue to arrogantly blather on. Act confused and upset that others are not immediately praising your genius.

 

Why? I don't know this falsely accused fellow. I have never seen him speak. I have heard Drew Brees talk numerous times. Why would I trust his opinion over Drew Brees (the savior of New Orleans)? If this guy's occupation is a "scholar" (a religious scholar to boot) then I am sure he is a complete waste of space.

 

Yes, you did.

Didn't you?

Can't help yourself, got to get a personal shot in, right.

Sheesh !

DD

 

But you do know the guy has actually lived in gitmo, is a firsthand witness from an insider's perspective. You do know that his story is corroborated by scores of others who are parts of organizations whose job it is to monitor such things.

You do know that the US has admitted some of the practices he is talking about.

You also know that Drew Brees is a QB with no experience relating to gitmo other than seeing parts selected by the US officials who who have an interest in showing the facility in the best light whether it's accurate or not.

Why is scholar a waste of space? Someone who's dedicated to learning is a waste of space more than a guy who's service to society is to play a game?

 

Do you trust Brees or the United Nations Commission on Human Rights?

 

the last few pages have been full of you making excuses for and justifying torture (that is the subject of this particular thread, btw).

that is why i said "even targeting of civilian areas like in WWII had a strategic goal (for the most part)" i was specifically thinking of dresden when i typed that out.

you are the one who brought up the problem of what to do with prisoners. and your entire line of reasoning here is amoral at best.

 

I said I would release them....

It's ok....no one wants to ever admit that in order to win war, you got to out dirty your enemy, that is not a fun conversation to have.....

DD

 

no you didnt.

maybe i missed it, but i see nothing here about you saying you would release them. in fact, you say that releasing them would not "end well". sounds more like you think that we should hold them forever in order to keep them from talking. nevermind if an innocent person was mistakenly picked up and tortured for years and we later find out for certain that they were innocent - we cant ever let that person out b/c they might talk.

torture is not an effective means to try to win a war.

 

A religious scholar provides nothing tangible, applicable, or useful, thus he is a waste of space. Drew Brees provides entertainment, which is very useful.

Yes. The UN is meaningless, especially when it comes to human rights.

 

I guess we just have to disagree about the usefulness of religious scholars. I think millions if not billions get much towards enriching their lives from scholars. They changed my previously simplistic view of religion long ago. Knowledge is power, and that's very important when talking about people's spirituality.

The U.S. army has found that people with a greater sense of spirituality are less prone to suicide, better able to cope with the stress of combat etc. They even have a spirituality test they give to soldiers now.

 

haha, you can't make this stuff up.

fyi, a religious scholar you may know-