Information Technology people -- I need some advice

I don't know if this is possible in graduate school but I co-oped five semesters with two different companies before I finally got my bachelor's degree. Both companies said they would definitely look favorably upon me if I wanted to work there, and some of the folks I met then I still am in touch with today.

If you have very good grades, one of the top gigs when I was a kid was the National Security Agency. I wasn't really interested in moving, but it's excellent work, plus with the security clearance you are automatically enabled for almost any defense job when you graduate in case you decide you don't want to work there.

I hesitate to give you advice on classes - take what you enjoy - I am in favor of Joel Spolsky's hire smart people who get things done, because they can learn techniques or API's, so YMMV.

One of my friends from college got his BS in Physics and his Masters in EE and alot of what he did for his Masters was work for his professor's software research in large scale databases. He's been writing software since we both graduated about 15 years ago.

re:video game industry - I've been working in this for the past seven years and most folks would rather see projects rather than academic stuff for programmers, still do all the 3D you can. Because of the glamour factor, expect a much lower pay scale and even less job security versus other industries.

 

I think anything related to online security is a good way to go.

Why are you doing what you're doing? What's your purpose for going into this field anyway?

 

WOW! Great thread. It was a great read. I am also stuck at deciding if computer engineering is the right path to follow. I am currently in my second year of college.

I have been having second thoughts about my current major. I am just not sure if there will be jobs when I graduate. The job market for CS doesn't appear to be getting any better.

 

Who knows what fields will be in high demand when you graduate? Whatever is hot now will probably not be hot when you get out, and perhaps what's cold now will be hot when you get out.

When I was in college, petroleum engineering was the in demand field in engineering. It really didn't appeal to me, having visited East Texas and the I-10 refinery corridor when I was younger. After working a bit on hardware and software in the real world, I found I enjoyed software much more, and changed paths after I graduated. It's possible but not easy.


Also, in the Bay Area, supposedly biology related fields are doing OK, but the pay is significantly lower than the computer tech jobs that were lost in the past two years. So should one get some biotech education for the current hot thing but lower pay or stick to something you will enjoy doing?

 

Thanks for your insight in that.

I have more interest in working with hardware. I am currently doing computer science, taking a C class right now. I am not sure what classes I should try to take.

 

My father and I had a discussion about this recently. We were discussing outsourcing overseas, and our conclusion is that people will always be needed to maintain networks, maintain servers, build networks, fix computers, system administration, etc. Things that can't be shipped to India -- things that HAVE to be done at the equipment's location.

Personally, I like hardware stuff. I like fixing things, taking them apart, putting them together, etc. The biggest advice I have is to make sure you get some sort of a summer job/internship (which you are looking for), because had I not spent one summer working at Lightspeed, I wouldn't be anywhere NEAR where I am now in terms of expertise. I learned more REAL WORLD stuff in that than in all my college courses combined.

The most important thing though, is to make sure you do something you enjoy, and not where there's a lot of money, which I'm sure you're aware of. I get frustrated about this because my brother's in college now, getting a degree in Petroleum Engineering, a field he has never shown ANY interest in (unlike health/nutrition, which he is fascinated by), and seems to be more enticed by the money he thinks he'll make. When I was in school a few years ago, EVERYONE was getting degrees in IT because it was "the hot thing" and there was lots of money to be made. A lot of people who didn't really like it that much, and WEREN'T ANY GOOD AT IT ended up getting IT degrees, and when we all graduated, the bottom had fallen out, and the job market was saturated with IT people, many of whom had more experience than we recent graduates. A lot of the people I graduated with are either going to grad school, or doing something non-IT, which doesn't shock me because most of the people I graduated with were really bad at the whole "computer thing". I know I wouldn't have hired them . . .

 

"Find a job you love and you'll never work another day in your life."

 

What hardware in particular?

Learning how to actually work onthe machines themselves is easy....or shall I say it came easy to me...but I have always loved taking things apart to see how they worked and putting them back together.

Do you just want to do building, repairing, and putting together of systems?
Or do you want to get even lower level than that?

My brother in law got a degree in computer engineering...he actually designs hardware..needless to say that is a veery difficult and advanced sort of hardware work..if you are interested in that..let me know..Ill ask him what advice he has.

jw,

I would say that network/online security is a field that will never go away with all of the various threats to networks that exist these days.
I hope so anyway, since that is what I am currently working on.

 

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm.../ap/20040126/ap_on_hi_te/college_seniors_jobs

High-Tech Degrees Don't Guarantee Jobs

NEW BRUNSWICK, N.J. - College seniors are finding that a high-tech degree isn't the job guarantee that many thought it would be.

A recent report from Forrester Research has projected that as many as 3.3 million American white collar tech jobs will go to overseas workers by 2015.

While there are hopeful signs outside the technology sector, outsourcing of computer programming and customer service jobs to China, India and other countries with cheaper labor costs have dimmed prospects for seniors like computer-science major Andrew Zhou, said Richard White, director of career services at Rutgers.

Eager to ride the high-tech tide, Zhou double-majored in computer science and finance when he arrived at Rutgers University in 2000.

But as graduation approaches, Zhou is pinning his hopes on finance and dropping the idea he once had that computer know-how guaranteed him a job.

"Four years ago, it seemed like an awesome major," Zhou said as he waited to speak with a recruiter for a telecommunications management firm at Rutgers' annual career day.

"Now, nobody wants to get in because all the jobs are going to India."

White noted that "Jobs that used to be available for U.S. citizens are being diverted overseas where the quality is equal or better at a fraction of the cost."

The fallout from outsourcing and stagnant U.S. technology market means that seniors at San Jose State University — in the heart of Silicon Valley — face yet another "very tight" job market, said career center director Cheryl Allmen-Vinnedge.

"The entry level positions just aren't out there now," agreed Halbert Wilson.

A January graduate with a degree in information technology from the New Jersey Institute of Technology, Wilson is counting on contacts made during an internship with a pharmaceutical company to help him get a job.

Experts say the best sectors for seniors to find employment are in finance, health care, advertising and government. And a jump in the number of campus recruiters visiting some campuses is giving students reason for hope.

At the University of Mississippi, for instance, recruiting coordinator Gina Starnes said career center interview rooms are booked solid by corporate representatives during February — the month many companies converge at the Oxford, Miss., campus to troll for job candidates.

After two consecutive years of little or no growth, the National Association of Colleges and Employers — which tracks college to workplace job trends — is forecasting a 12.7 percent jump in hiring this year.

NACE spokeswoman Camille Luckenbaugh warned, however, that while 51 percent of the employers surveyed by the group said they would increase recruitment of college graduates this year, another 28 percent indicated they would curtail hiring on campuses.

A leading Internet source for college students seeking entry-level jobs said listings in the accounting and retail fields have both jumped by over 50 percent compared with last year.

Job opportunities in the financial, health care and advertising sectors also have increased, said Michelle Forker, vice president of MonsterTRAK, a subsidiary of Monster.com, the Online job service.

And the Partnership for Public Service — a nonprofit that promotes civil service career — is predicting that the federal government will fill 73,000 jobs in the next six months.

Internal Revenue Service (news - web sites) recruiter Doug Fuller was besieged at the Rutgers' career day.

"The economy has perhaps changed the mind-set of this generation," he said, "Where they think more about jobs with greater stability than you could encounter in the private sector."

 

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.02/india.html?tw=wn_tophead_3


The New Face of the Silicon Age


How India became the capital of the computing revolution.

By Daniel H. Pink
He's the guy - and, yeah, he's usually a guy - launching Web sites like yourjobisgoingtoindia.com and nojobsforindia.com. He's the guy telling tales - many of them true, a few of them urban legends - about American programmers being forced to train their Indian replacements. Because of him, India's commerce and industry minister flew to Washington in June to assure the Bush administration that Indian coders were not bent on destroying American livelihoods. And for the past year, he's the guy who's been picketing corporate outsourcing conferences, holding placards that read WILL CODE FOR FOOD will code for food and chanting, "Shame, shame, shame!"

Now meet the cause of all this fear and loathing: Aparna Jairam of Mumbai. She's 33 years old. Her long black hair is clasped with a barrette. Her dark eyes are deep-set and unusually calm. She has the air of the smartest girl in class - not the one always raising her hand and shouting out answers, but the one who sits in back, taking it all in and responding only when called upon, yet delivering answers that make the whole class turn around and listen.

In 1992, Jairam graduated from India's University of Pune with a degree in engineering. She has since worked in a variety of jobs in the software industry and is now a project manager at Hexaware Technologies in Mumbai, the city formerly known as Bombay. Jairam specializes in embedded systems software for handheld devices. She leaves her two children with a babysitter each morning, commutes an hour to the office, and spends her days attending meetings, perfecting her team's code, and emailing her main client, a utility company in the western US. Jairam's annual salary is about $11,000 - more than 22 times the per capita annual income in India.

Aparna Jairam isn't trying to steal your job. That's what she tells me, and I believe her. But if Jairam does end up taking it - and, let's face facts, she could do your $70,000-a-year job for the wages of a Taco Bell counter jockey - she won't lose any sleep over your plight. When I ask what her advice is for a beleaguered American programmer afraid of being pulled under by the global tide that she represents, Jairam takes the high road, neither dismissing the concern nor offering soothing happy talk. Instead, she recites a portion of the 2,000-year-old epic poem and Hindu holy book the Bhagavad Gita: "Do what you're supposed to do. And don't worry about the fruits. They'll come on their own."

This is a story about the global economy. It's about two countries and one profession - and how weirdly upside down the future has begun to look from opposite sides of the globe. It's about code and the people who write it. But it's also about free markets, new politics, and ancient wisdom - which means it's ultimately about faith.

Our story begins beside the murky waters of the Arabian Sea. I've come to Mumbai to see what software programmers in India make of the anti-outsourcing hubbub in the US. Mumbai may not have as many coders per square foot as glossier tech havens like Bangalore and Hyderabad, but there's a lot more real life here. Mumbai is India's largest city - with an official population of 18 million and an actual population incalculably higher. It's a sweltering, magnificent, teeming megalopolis in which every human triumph and affliction shouts at the top of its lungs 24 hours a day.

Jairam's firm, Hexaware, is located in the exurbs of Mumbai in a district fittingly called Navi Mumbai, or New Mumbai. To get there, you fight traffic thicker and more chaotic than rush hour in hell as you pass a staggering stretch of shantytowns. But once inside the Millennium Business Park, which houses Hexaware and several other high tech companies, you've tumbled through a wormhole and landed in northern Virginia or Silicon Valley. The streets are immaculate. The buildings fairly gleam. The lawns are fit for putting. And in the center is an outdoor café bustling with twentysomethings so picture-perfect I look around to see if a film crew is shooting a commercial.

Hexaware's headquarters, the workplace of some 500 programmers (another 800 work at a development center in the southern city of Chennai, and 200 more are in Bangalore), is a silvery four-story glass building chock-full of blond-wood cubicles and black Dell computers. In one area, 30 new recruits sit through programming boot camp; down the hall, 25 even newer hires are filling out HR forms. Meanwhile, other young people - the average age here is 27 - tap keyboards and skitter in and out of conference rooms outfitted with whiteboards and enclosed in frosted glass. If you pulled the shades and ignored the accents, you could be in Santa Clara. But it's the talent - coupled with the ridiculously low salaries, of course - that's luring big clients from Europe and North America. The coders here work for the likes of Citibank, Deutsche Leasing, Alliance Capital, Air Canada, HSBC, BP, Princeton University, and several other institutions that won't permit Hexaware to reveal their names.

Jairam works in a first-floor cubicle that's unadorned except for a company policy statement, a charcoal sketch, and a small statue of Ganesh, the elephant-headed Hindu god of knowledge and obstacle removal. Like most employees, Jairam rides to work aboard a private bus, one in a fleet the company dispatches throughout Mumbai to shuttle its workers to the office. Many days she eats lunch in the firm's colorful fourth-floor canteen. While Hexaware's culinary offerings don't measure up to Google's celebrity chef and gourmet fare, the food's not bad - chana saag, aloo gobi, rice, chapatis - and the price is right. A meal costs 22 rupees, about 50 cents.

After lunch one Tuesday, I meet in a conference room with Jairam and five colleagues to hear their reactions to the complaints of the Pissed-Off Programmer. I cite the usual statistics: 1 in 10 US technology jobs will go overseas by the end of 2004, according to the research firm Gartner. In the next 15 years, more than 3 million US white-collar jobs, representing $136 billion in wages, will depart to places like India, with the IT industry leading the migration, according to Forrester Research. I relate stories of American programmers collecting unemployment, declaring bankruptcy, even contemplating suicide - because they can't compete with people willing to work for one-sixth of their wages.
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And accountants, financial analysts, and other number crunchers, prepare for your close-up. Your jobs are next. After all, to export sneakers or sweatshirts, companies need an intercontinental supply chain. To export software or spreadsheets, somebody just needs to hit Return.
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wow...I didnt have any idea it was that many getting shipped overseas.

Makes me feel better that the jobs for those people not afraid to get their hands dirty working with the physical components will still be needed...I guess I just need to be patient and hope I find that one job for me..

 

With globalization, even many white collar workers in the Western world will have to work multiple jobs, to keep up their current lifestyle. On the other hand if you live with your parents or don't plan on having children, maybe it won't be that bad.

 

re: biotech

There's a need for database tech, data acquisition, etc...

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/2374410

Jan. 27, 2004, 11:48PM

Biotechnology sector generating jobs
By DARRIN SCHLEGEL
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle

Houston's biotechnology community is creating jobs and spending more on research for product development, according to a survey released Tuesday.

But the industry remains challenged to find more capital and to sustain a growth rate seen in other cities that are hotbeds of biotechnology, officials said.

The BioHouston survey, conducted in November and December and sponsored by Ernst & Young, found that annual research and development spending by area life sciences companies nearly tripled to $168 million from 1999 to 2003.

Meanwhile, direct employment at those companies increased by 19 percent annually in the past three years and is expected to rise almost 16 percent this year.

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You're not what anyone would call an optimist, are you?

 

Realist!

This is what all the laissez faire folks are saying is inevitable. So be it. The natural outcome of that is that all incomes will migrate to some common number, taking into account other costs. We will be the world leader in defense, service industries, and geriatric care and nothing else until Americans get used to a much lower standard of living for generations. There are only so many "creativity" jobs as described in the Wired article. I get hundreds of submissions for one job posting and ten percent are from companies in India wanting to outsource the work.


When even the Germans are having to do this...

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0128/p01s04-woeu.html

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Moonlighting has long been a part of economic reality in the United States. But the financial doldrums in Europe's largest economy are beginning to force Germans like Mr. Koschorrek into working two or even three jobs to stay afloat and afford some of the finer things in life.

"Certainly what has happened elsewhere hasn't gone unnoticed in Germany," says Martin Werding, at the Ifo Institute for Economic Research in Munich. "There have been massive changes in standard work life. Flexible contracts, people changing professions - all this has arrived in Germany as well. In that sense [working two jobs] is a part of the picture."
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