Indrek Wichman: Michigan Professor tells Muslims, you don't like it here, leave...

You've completely ignored the facts I gave you, that Muhammad is human, and Jesus is something more. They are not comparable so it's no surprise that Jesus is more "miraculous" than Muhammad.

Jesus is credited with MORE miracles in the Quran than in the Bible.

Further, you're even comparing Hadith to the Bible. Again, the "ranking" in terms of relative role goes like this:

Allah - Jesus (both divine)
Muhammad - A Disciple (neither divine)
Quran - Old Testament (direct from source)
Hadith - New Testament (indirect allegedly from source)

Why do you compare Jesus to a regular man?

Why do you ignore the Old Testament as if the New Testament replaced it?

Muslims believe all other Abrahamic religions have been corrupted, Christians believe all other Abrahamic religions have been corrupted, Jews believe all other have been corrupted. It's the same thing over and over again. What you say about Muhammad is what Jews said about Jesus. Can you see the cycle?

I have to point out that you either have not studied Islam or the Quran, or you don't remember the lessons very well. There must be some explanation. The basic errors you make in describing fundamental Islamic beliefs is the equivalent of a Muslim claiming that Christians are Polytheists. It shows a kind of "surface knowledge" of the religion, and weakens your argument. Muhammad was not a miracle maker, he was not a God, he was a simple and scarcely educated human who was allegedly chosen by God to transmit a message, according to the Quran. From the Christian perspective, Muhammad's role is similar to:

He was a pioneer of human rights of his time, he united a divided and severely impoverished people and ignited one of the largest and most succesful empires the world has ever seen. It is only when you acknowledge that he is a human being that these things are incredible, and obviously if you compare him to "divine Jesus" these things are less than impressive.

Anyways, that's my 2 fils, thank you for the discussion.

 

Harry Potter is clearly better than Peter Pan. Duh!

 

Yes, but neither had the ONE RING, that was all Frodo baby !

DD

 

I believe in this man!

 

Totally convinced that izkadavid is actually an internet search engine set to 6 years ago looking for words such as "Islamist", "Muslim", and "Bad".

 

I hate all organized religion equally.

 

I hate giving up my weekends and holidays for infantilizing read- and sing-a-longs as well as ethnocentrism, patriarchy and historical and scientific escapism all disguised as moral idealism; but I also like that weekends and holidays exist.

 

Muhammad is the better human example, and if Jesus is God, then Jesus is the better example by virtue of being... God.

If the comparison was to make sense, and we compared Islamic Muhammad to Islamic Jesus, then Muhammad is the better example because we probably don't need to turn water to wine, raise the dead, resurresct ourselves, etc. Whereas we certainly need to learn that there is a huge real world benefit in fighting to improve the rights of women, orphans, pay charity, opposing political oppressors, protecting minorities, etc.

But if we were to go by who has the better moralistic principles, I doubt Jesus or Muhammad would even make the highlight reel, as there are more peaceful prophets/gods scattered around the various religions of the world.

 

you want a cookie or something?

 

You sir are flat out owning !

DD

 

Yes, because that's exactly what Muslims believe (odd that you presume Muslims to not understand Muhammad better than yourself...).

In any case, two can play this moronic game:

Jesus:
"Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works." (Revelation 2:22-23)

Leviticus 20:9
If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.
20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 22:20-1 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house.

Exodus 35:2
For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 7:1-2 When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

20:10-17 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Exodus 21:20-21 If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)

"Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." (Judges 19:24-25)

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

Lots more that can be posted here....
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As a disclaimer, it was with some reservation that I posted this at all. Personally, I've always had a tremendous amount of respect for the Christian faith, and only posted this to counteract the self-righteous denigration of Islam coming from IzakDavid and his evangelical, rabid anti-Islam campaign that, although brief, is becoming tiresome. My apologies to the many well-meaning Christian posters (MadMax and FB are two who come to mind) that are able to remain committed to their faith without the insecurity of needing to antagonize others.

 

Good job copy pasting, you plagiarizing tard.
http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/54292

Called it. Spot on.

 

Your jingoistic posts are quite hilarious. You almost sound like you could be a white supremacist if not for that Jewish sounding moniker you have.

 

You guys keep arguing and hating each other! And remember to use your religion to justify your hate and future atrocities! Then just keep rinsing and repeating, keep spinning those wheels of intolerance and ignorance and make sure to indoctrinate your children too!

 

Immediately followed by....

*Shaking my head*

 

My religion is better and more peaceful than your religion! I will proceed to prove this by refusing to respect or tolerate your beliefs, and by constantly demeaning and denigrating them! LOOK AT HOW FORGIVING I AM.

It's not like either of the sides in this thread are even arguing on the correct level. It's like comparing whose action figure is "better" than the other. We should really be discussing why two humans, presumably raised by 1st world educations in a post-industrialist world, still place so much importance and faith in ancient mythology.

Ooooh. Shots fired!