1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Independents: Bush or Clark?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Batman Jones, Aug 18, 2003.

?

Bush or Clark?

  1. Bush

    10 vote(s)
    21.7%
  2. Clark

    36 vote(s)
    78.3%
  1. Friendly Fan

    Friendly Fan PinetreeFM60 Exposed

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,135
    Likes Received:
    1

    well, you should know, as a veteran of both conflicts
     
  2. Friendly Fan

    Friendly Fan PinetreeFM60 Exposed

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,135
    Likes Received:
    1
    Mad Man, there are many, thousands of sources. Here's one fromt the Boston Globe:

    -------------------

    Prescott Bush and the Nazis
    by MICHAEL KRANISH
    (Excerpt from PRESCOTT BUSH & NAZIS, BOSTON GLOBE 4/23/2001, TRIUMPHS, TROUBLES SHAPE GENERATIONS

    PRESCOTT BUSH PAVED MODERATE PATH FOR SON AND GRANDSON;
    WOUNDED BY FRIEND'S BETRAYAL, HE PUT HIGH PRICE ON LOYALTY)

    Author: By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff Date: 04/23/2001 Page: A1 Section: National/Foreign

    AN AMERICAN DYNASTY
    Last of two parts

    "Prescott Bush was surely aghast at a sensational article the New York
    Herald Tribune splashed on its front page in July 1942.

    'Hitler's Angel Has 3 Million in US Bank,' read the headline above a story reporting that Adolf Hitler's financier had stowed the fortune in Union Banking Corp., possibly to be held for "Nazi bigwigs."

    Bush knew all about the New York bank: He was one of its seven directors. If the Nazi tie became known, it would be a potential embarrassment, Bush and his partners at Brown Brothers Harriman worried, explaining to government regulators that their position was merely an unpaid courtesy for a client.

    The situation grew more serious when the government seized Union's assets under the Trading with the Enemy Act, the sort of action that could have ruined Bush's political dreams.

    As it turned out, his involvement wasn't pursued by the press or political opponents during his Senate campaigns a decade later. But the episode may well have been one of the catalysts for a dramatic change in his life.

    Just as the Union Banking story broke, Bush volunteered to be chairman of United Service Organizations, putting himself on the national stage for the first time.

    He traveled the country raising millions of dollars to help boost the morale of US troops during World War II, enhancing his stature in a way that helped him get elected US senator.

    A son and grandson would become presidents."
     
  3. MadMax

    MadMax Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    76,683
    Likes Received:
    25,924
    thanks for the info, FF...i'd never heard that before.
     
  4. Friendly Fan

    Friendly Fan PinetreeFM60 Exposed

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,135
    Likes Received:
    1
  5. Friendly Fan

    Friendly Fan PinetreeFM60 Exposed

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,135
    Likes Received:
    1
    MadMax,

    the fact is that lots of Americans were doing business with Germany right up until the war, and Prescott was one of them. I don't know how deeply he was in bed with them, but it makes for good conversation.



    Republican Senators were generally isolationists in the 1930s, and 40-41, and many were not hostile to Germany.
     
    #105 Friendly Fan, Aug 20, 2003
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2003
  6. Friendly Fan

    Friendly Fan PinetreeFM60 Exposed

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,135
    Likes Received:
    1
    he left at the very suggestion that military service was appropriate for the gung ho.
     
    #106 Friendly Fan, Aug 20, 2003
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2003
  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,909
    Likes Received:
    41,446
    Ehh, Joe Kennedy also had nazi sympathizer rumors bandied about him so I think we can overlook it, considering the Kennedy sons and Bush sons each fought in WWII anyway.
     
  8. mc mark

    mc mark Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    471
    No he's just one of those post 1970 post war babies that's have no clue of what war is or its ramifications.
     
  9. johnheath

    johnheath Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    0
    LOL, so McMark, if you aren't willing to be a policemen, don't you dare argue that a cop should risk his life! Good reasoning.
     
  10. Friendly Fan

    Friendly Fan PinetreeFM60 Exposed

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,135
    Likes Received:
    1
    thank you


    here is how it is analogous to Vietnam:

    we are spread out over the country, and much of our risk to personnel comes from having to mix with the population. this causes the soldiers to lapse into momentary lulls that can cost them their lives. then they overreact the next time and kill someone who was innocent.

    anyone who accidently kills a civilian who was clearly innocent, or kills a fellow soldier is totally screwed up by it. I'll bet the guy who shot the newsman recently will be back in the states soon getting psychological help.

    we have 12,000 guys who have claims for Gulf War Syndrome, and about 75% have been turned down.

    well, it's Tommy this, and Tommy that, and Tommy get your gun
     
    #110 Friendly Fan, Aug 20, 2003
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2003
  11. Friendly Fan

    Friendly Fan PinetreeFM60 Exposed

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,135
    Likes Received:
    1
    Rudyard Kipling wrote of the lipservice given to supporting the troops in his poem, TOMMY

    Rudyard Kipling

    Tommy

    I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
    The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
    The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
    I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
    O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
    But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
    The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
    O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

    I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
    They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
    They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
    But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
    For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
    But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
    The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
    O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

    Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
    Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
    An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
    Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
    Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
    But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
    The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
    O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

    We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
    But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
    An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
    Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
    While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
    But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
    There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
    O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

    You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
    We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
    Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
    The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
    For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
    But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
    An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
    An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!
     
  12. mc mark

    mc mark Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    471
    John that makes no sense whatsoever.

    What I am trying to say is you should have a little more respect.

    comprendo
     
  13. johnheath

    johnheath Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    0
    I should have more respect???? Are you high?

    He is the one calling me names. I asked him legitimate questions, and he attacked.

    btw, it is comprende.
     
  14. mc mark

    mc mark Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    471
    the man served two tours

    I think his insight might be a little more indepth...
     
  15. johnheath

    johnheath Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    0
    So, since he served two tours, he has the right to call anybody who disagrees with his opinion a coward?

    He complains about Republicans who label war protesters "unpatriotic". He is the flip side of that same coin.

    Iraq is not a Vietnam type quagmire, and to advance that argument is ridiculous. He can't argue the point, so he blew a gasket. LOL, he is kind of funny really.

    Check out his take on the Arab world-

    I have long favored military action against Saudi, not Iraq. Take down Saudi, eliminate the royal family, carve up Saudi and put the Muslim holy cities in their own country. Control the oil through surrogates and puppets.

    We should be sitting in Riyadh now, not Baghdad. We could have attacked the country where 15 hijackers called home, the country whose diplomatic corps and intelligence were heavily involved in 9/11. We could have arrested all the clerics who teach their hate, treat them as the criminals they are, cart them off to Gitmo.


    Tell me how his views are coherent.
     
  16. mc mark

    mc mark Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    471
    He's right in a lot of what he says. But as long as a Bush is in office, the Royal family is safe.
     
  17. johnheath

    johnheath Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    0
    McMark, you are an intellectual weakling. You completely avoided everyone of my questions, and then ended with a cheap shot at our President.

    Exactly who is the aggressor that would attack Saudi Arabia if not for President Bush's "protection"?
     
  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,909
    Likes Received:
    41,446
    The citizens that the house of Saud lives off of.
     
  19. Friendly Fan

    Friendly Fan PinetreeFM60 Exposed

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,135
    Likes Received:
    1
    McMark, thanks but that ain't no thing.

    there are 9-10 mil of us, and most never speak of it, most have never been in a VFW hall, and never would.

    it's not that big a deal unless you're a political leaders who talks big and wants to send soldiers to do the dirty work

    I was a non combatant. Great work, loved what I did. Loved Asia and its culture. but the war was an oozing, pus filled sore.
     
  20. Friendly Fan

    Friendly Fan PinetreeFM60 Exposed

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,135
    Likes Received:
    1
    here's what I said, with hyperbole included for effect

    here's why

    1. if we want oil, let's get the country that has the most by far

    2. Saudi is the hotbed of terrorist thought, the breeding ground

    3. Iraq is far behind Saudi, Syria, Egypt and Pakistan in that regard.

    4. Taking down the royal family removes the payoffs extremist get now, and allows for a more equitiable distribution of wealth.

    5. the militant clerics are a root cause, so they have to be shut up, carted off, or killed.
     

Share This Page