In This Thread Every Post Must Contain A Lockout Update

TheGreat · Nov 18, 2011

72?

They can extend the entire season 10 days...

UTAllTheWay · Nov 18, 2011

Damn, that Bill Simmons article was actually a really good read.

Deckard · Nov 18, 2011

A_3PO said: ↑

This expresses a lot of what I've felt all along.
Click to expand...

That was a great, great read. One of the best columns I've seen from Simmons in a long time. For me, it all adds up. Good find, ascaptjack! Everyone should read it.

Spooner · Nov 18, 2011

Wow fantastic Simmons article. Props to you ascaptjack!

Icehouse · Nov 19, 2011

Is this true?

http://bostonglobe.com/sports/2011/...rs-standoff/vtutPpyvV792fRLL2mBs8L/story.html

NBA stars such as LeBron, Kobe, D-Wade, Kevin Durant and Derrick Rose aren’t just employees. They’re the product, and that’s the irony here. The NBA is trying to slay a monster it created.

The NBA’s success has been built on the idea of peddling personalities and building individual brands. It’s how the NBA rose to prominence. It wasn’t Celtics vs. Lakers. It was Bird vs. Magic, or Magic vs. Michael, or Jordan vs. Barkley. No league has emphasized individual accomplishment and personality like the NBA over the past 25-30 years. The league empowered its star players by putting them above its teams.

It’s no wonder that they ended up with some self-serving, entitled, egomaniacal players like LeBron. But what the NBA is trying to do is jam the tooth-paste back in the tube, one messy, desperate dip at a time.

Easy · Nov 19, 2011

Icehouse said: ↑

Is this true?

http://bostonglobe.com/sports/2011/...rs-standoff/vtutPpyvV792fRLL2mBs8L/story.html

NBA stars such as LeBron, Kobe, D-Wade, Kevin Durant and Derrick Rose aren’t just employees. They’re the product, and that’s the irony here. The NBA is trying to slay a monster it created.

The NBA’s success has been built on the idea of peddling personalities and building individual brands. It’s how the NBA rose to prominence. It wasn’t Celtics vs. Lakers. It was Bird vs. Magic, or Magic vs. Michael, or Jordan vs. Barkley. No league has emphasized individual accomplishment and personality like the NBA over the past 25-30 years. The league empowered its star players by putting them above its teams.

It’s no wonder that they ended up with some self-serving, entitled, egomaniacal players like LeBron. But what the NBA is trying to do is jam the tooth-paste back in the tube, one messy, desperate dip at a time.
Click to expand...

Ice, this is the only post from you I wholeheartedly agree!

Icehouse · Nov 19, 2011

Easy said: ↑

Ice, this is the only post from you I wholeheartedly agree!
Click to expand...

Lol, I meant this part:

There is also what we’ll call the LeBron Rule, a stipulation that all but ends the early termination option (ETO) in contracts that LeBron, Wade and Bosh all used to become free agents last summer, and that Dwight Howard and Chris Paul could utilize to hit the market this summer.

Now, a player (and a team) could only have an option year if the first-year salary is less than the NBA average player salary, which will never happen for an NBA star, or if the option years are non-guaranteed.

The next proposal from NBA owners will probably ask to bring back the old baseball reserve clause.

ascaptjack · Nov 19, 2011

ChrisMannixSI Chris Mannix
Talking w/coaches, everyone still preparing like there will be a season. And, if there is, expecting everyone to come to camp out of shape.

ascaptjack · Nov 20, 2011

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...spears_paul_pierce_celtics_nba_lockout_111911

Boston Celtics forward Paul Pierce(notes) spent Saturday morning leading more than 300 children in fitness
exercises to kick off the “Million Hour Challenge,” an initiative that asks 2,000 children from Massachusetts to complete a million hours of physical activity over the next year.

“What we are trying to do with this program is to give a template for other players around the league so they can do it in their city and take it national,” said Pierce, who launched the “Truth on Health” campaign through his foundation to encourage children to lead healthier lives. “We have a lot of different pro athletes, not just basketball players, who are interested.”

By Saturday evening, Pierce was getting his own workout, playing in a charity game organized by teammate Rajon Rondo(notes). For
now, that’s been the extent of competition for Pierce and his Boston Celtics with the NBA lockout lasting longer than 4½ months. And no one can be sure when it will end.

“I’m optimistic that we will have a season,” Pierce told Yahoo! Sports by phone Saturday. “People ask me that every day when I leave the house if we are going to have a season. I’ve been probably saying, ‘Hopefully in a couple weeks,’ the last two months. That’s how optimistic I am. I just feel like something is going to happen.

“There is going to be something that turns the light on for both sides and gets this thing going. I think there is too much at stake for both sides. The [popularity] that the game is building nationally and worldwide … it’s crazy that we are at this place right now.”

Pierce has taken an active role during the lockout, helping lead a conference call earlier this month with about 50 players to discuss the possibility of the Players Association decertifying. Pierce now says the call came as a result of reports that a rift had developed in the union leadership between executive director Billy Hunter and president Derek Fisher(notes).
Pierce discussed the call and his other thoughts on the lockout in an interview with Yahoo! Sports.

Question: How would you describe your role during the lockout and can you talk about the conference call on decertification?

Pierce: “A lot of players know I’ve been around 13 years and this is my second lockout. I got a lot of respect. I know what’s going on both for the league and the union. A lot of players have been calling me and asking me about decertification. … The agents were trying to push this for months. It came to a point with the whole fiasco with Derek and Billy. I didn’t know the ins and outs of that, nor did I ask [Fisher and Hunter] about that or even think that it was even true.

“A lot of players saw that and were frustrated just seeing that stuff at the top was going on. Then they started asking me what was going on. All I did was I had an opportunity to talk to a lawyer a lot about decertification. And then I offered it to the players who wanted to hear what the guy had to say. A lot of guys were interested in talking to the lawyer so we had a conference call with like 40-something guys where we went through the ins and outs of decertification, the positives and negatives.

“At that point, players got to make a decision whether to negotiate or decertify or do what we’re doing now [disbanding the union and filing an antitrust suit]. That’s pretty much what it was. … I don’t know if I was leading the charge. If I was, I’d probably have the [decertification] petitions in my hand. I just wanted the guys to get the information. There were a lot of guys who were really critical of decertifying because they didn’t believe that the NBA would negotiate a deal with us.”

Q: The union dissolved last Monday as the players decided to unanimously to file a “disclaimer of interest” and take their fight to court. Did you agree with that move?

Pierce: “I don’t know what the right move is. Billy and the lawyers have the expertise on that type of stuff. I don’t know if that’s the right move or [forced] decertification is the right move or sitting at the table is the right move. We weren’t getting nowhere at the negotiation table. The players felt like they were giving, giving, giving while the owners were taking all the concessions.

“I know that decertification is still a possibility. There is some stuff that myself and some other prominent players still talk about. But whatever we do, we’re still working on the same line with what’s going on with the lawsuit we filed. I don’t know how that goes into play now.”

Q: What do you think about the state of the lockout right now?

Pierce: “Everything is up in the air. Obviously, we couldn’t come to an agreement. We ended up deciding in the meetings to file a lawsuit. It’s unfortunate that both sides couldn’t come to an agreement. It’s sad, especially for players like me who don’t have too many more years. It’s a tough pill to swallow, but it’s a reality.”

Q: Do the players or owners have to take the next step to renew labor talks?

Pierce: “I think the owners have to take the step. We have taken a lot of steps. I think we have taken as many steps as we can take, which is why we are at where we are at. We feel like we’ve taken the most steps. That’s why we are going to court now.”

Q: It appears that the Celtics’ “Big Three” – yourself, Kevin Garnett(notes) and Ray Allen
(notes) – have been the most
vocal of any group of players on any team during the lockout. Garnett gave a speech to the players. Ray Allen has said he was “prepared to do what the Players Association needs me to do.” You have been vocal. Why is that?

Pierce: “We are the most vocal because we have three guys on our team that have been through the last lockout, and I don’t think you have another team like that. That’s probably why. We understand what we are going through a little bit more than a lot of other people.”

Q: [Celtics free-agent forward] Glen Davis(notes) has also voiced his displeasure with the union’s stance. He’s
tweeted, “Take the 51% man and let’s play.” What do you think about what he has said?

Pierce: “You got a lot of players that say, ‘Let’s take the deal.’ ‘Let’s take 51.’ ‘Let’s go 50-50.’ A lot of them don’t understand the issues. A lot of them are on the outside looking in. They kind of followed the negotiations on [television]. A lot of players didn’t understand the 50-50. Then you have a lot of players who weren’t in a lot of the meetings. They all flew out to New York, actually saw the deal [last Monday] and couldn’t believe it.

“I had guys going to the gym, saying, ‘I can’t believe how bad the deal was.’ Once guys went to the meeting and saw what it really was, they kind of backed off of it.”

[ Related: Kevin Love, Luol Deng could play in Turkey ]

Q: Have you talked to Davis lately?

Pierce: “Yeah, I talked to Glen like three days ago. What I said to ‘Baby’ was [the basketball-related income split] is not the main issue. How the soft cap is determined is a major issue. A lot of it is system issues. The max number of deals. The midlevel exception. Those are the bigger issues. I know we need to come to a common ground on the 50-50 or whatever the deal is going to be on the [basketball-related income]. The thing that we argue the most over is the system issues. That’s what is holding us back.”

Q: After talking to Davis, do you think he has a different view of the lockout now?

Pierce: “It’s kind of hard for me speak for him because ‘Baby’ falls in the line of guys who are going to be affected in a major way – the free agents, the rookies coming in and players on the rookie scale now. And I can understand his frustration because he is saying, ‘I don’t have anything. I don’t even have a deal right now. Any deal would look good.’ A lot of guys are going to feel like that when they are put into a tight spot. What I want him to understand is it might not be the right deal for you today. So that’s what we are fighting for, the right deal for guys like you.”

Q: In fighting for the best deal, are you comfortable losing the season?

Pierce: “I’m never comfortable with losing a season. I’m a part of a group that is taking a stand for something. Regardless of about how 400 players feel, at the end of the day we have to go all in or nothing. Regardless of what we do, we have to stick together. There are probably not a lot of players feeling [good about] suing the NBA. But this is what’s going on, this is what has to take place and this is where we are. So the players have to swallow that pill and hope for the best.”

Q: Are you considering playing overseas during the lockout?

Pierce: “I’m actually starting to think so. I love the game so much. I’ve been just sitting here at home playing against the same guys in pickup every day. I’m a competitive player, and I love being on the court. If the NBA cancels the season I’m definitely looking at my options and considering going overseas.”

“Right now, I’m just looking at my options. I figure we are going to run out [of time around] Christmas if we are not even close yet. Well, maybe before Christmas. If around mid-December, if we are not even close, that’s probably a time where I’ll make some major decision.”

Q: Any specific country attracts you?

Pierce: “I’ve been to Spain and Italy, so I would look at those two. They have pretty much the best league.”

Q: If there is a shortened NBA season, could that help an older team like the Celtics?

Pierce: “Knowing the guys, I don’t have any worries about Ray, Kevin, myself and [Rajon] Rondo – he has been pretty active. We have a lot to do. We only have like six guys under contract. But a shortened season would be to our advantage. We were probably the best team in the league the first 60 games the last couple of years.”
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TheGreat · Nov 20, 2011

Danilo Gallinari implied on Sunday that he thinks the NBA season will start no later than January.

The quote is out of context but his meaning seems clear, as he said, "We are thinking about the worst and the worst is that the NBA season will start in January." A new CBA would have to be in place by Christmas to salvage any games in January, and it's nice to get a little optimism from somewhere.

http://twitter.com/#!/SportandoBasket

Lookin like a season how u

cod · Nov 20, 2011

trueroxfan said: ↑

amare is so naive if he thinks the players are capable of putting together a league, it's like having the government run healthcare, it's laughable...
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Obviously they'd get a law firm to set it all up.

dobro1229 · Nov 21, 2011

TheGreat said: ↑

Veteran NBA insider Ken Berger wrote Friday that the owners and players are still communicating and trying to make a deal that starts the season no later than December 25.

We always thought that the players' rejection of last week's offer was to gain leverage in one last counter. And we've waited patiently for any sign that David Stern would indeed lower his offer to the 'reset proposal,' which he threatened to do by last Wednesday.
Click to expand...

I think this is hogwash. On some level sure, but right now negotiations are silent for litigation purposes on the Players/Lawyers side, they cannot initiate negotiations if they stand a chance at winning in court if the season was lost. Their whole claim is that the NBA refuses to negotiate. So the longer Stern sits in his corner and pouts, the better the players positioning is with their argument that the NBA is involved in a "Boycott" and refuses to negotiate in good faith.

However, since the Union is now dismembered, player agents are now allowed to talk directly to NBA owners and officials. This might be what Berger is referring to.

Both Stern/NBA owners and David B/Hunter will be at a standoff till the first week of December at the earliest. Then it must be Stern/NBA that initiates negotiation talks if the players and their lawyers want to win in court and collect damages from the "illegal boycott."

-

ascaptjack · Nov 21, 2011

KBergCBS Ken Berger
In a mundane legal development, lawyers for the #NBA have asked federal judge to allow them to amend complaint in NY case, source says.

KBergCBS Ken Berger
Amended complaint fully expected since case relates to legality of lockout in face of union disclaimer and antitrust action.

ChrisMannixSI Chris Mannix
If David Stern's 'look at the calendar' scheduling philosophy is to be believed, Friday is deadline for a deal before X-mas games are out

ascaptjack · Nov 21, 2011

A good fan made video to end the lockout.

<object width="448" height="374"><param name="movie" value="http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/e/16711680/wshh1OXfi815X1bVy6O6"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/e/16711680/wshh1OXfi815X1bVy6O6" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" width="448" height="374"></embed></object>

ascaptjack · Nov 21, 2011

Just came across the timeline from the lockout in 1999.

Looks eerily familiar. I guess history repeats itself.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/news/1999/01/05/lockout_chronology/

Oct. 27, 1994 -- Owners and players agree to play the 1994-95 season under a no-strike, no-lockout agreement.

June 21, 1995 -- Owners and the players' union reach agreement on a six-year deal including a luxury tax of up to 100 percent on certain large contracts if the percentage of basketball-related income devoted to player salaries exceeds 63 percent.

July 1, 1995 -- Owners impose a lockout after players refuse to vote on ratification of the new deal

.

Aug. 8, 1995 -- Owners and players reach a new agreement, deleting the luxury tax in exchange for a reopener clause giving the owners the right to toss out the agreement after three years if the percentage of basketball-related income devoted to player salaries exceeds 51.8 percent.

Sept. 12, 1995 -- Players vote 226-134 to accept the new six-year agreement rather than decertify their union, and the lockout ends.

July 1, 1996 -- A moratorium on player signings is imposed as the sides work to finalize details of the six-year pact.

July 11, 1996 -- A lockout is imposed as the sides argue over $50 million in television revenue. The lockout is lifted after a couple of hours, and the agreement is completed.

March 23, 1998 -- Owners vote 27-2 to reopen the collective bargaining agreement at the conclusion of the season.

June 22, 1998 -- The last of nine in-season negotiating sessions ends after only 30 minutes, with the players saying they won't listen to any proposal that includes a "hard" salary cap.

June 30, 1998 -- League announces a lockout will begin the next day. Union files grievance with arbitrator John Feerick, asking that players with guaranteed contracts be paid during the lockout.

July 1, 1998 -- Owners impose the third lockout in league history.

Aug. 6, 1998 -- Collective bargaining talks resume, and owners walk out upon hearing the union's new proposal.

Aug. 26-Sept. 9, 1998 -- Guaranteed contracts hearing held before Feerick.

Sept. 24, 1998 -- League cancels 24 exhibition games and announces the indefinite postponement of training camps.

Oct. 5, 1998 -- League cancels remainder of exhibition season.

Oct. 8, 1998 -- Sides meet for about 4 1/2 hours, making little progress, and the first two weeks of the season are canceled.

Oct. 13, 1998 -- Sides meet for several hours, making no progress.

Oct. 20, 1998 -- Feerick ruled in favor of owners, saying they do not have to pay off guaranteed contracts during the lockout.

Oct. 28, 1998 -- After a meeting of the full union membership at which the owners were invited to speak, the sides meet past midnight but fail to reach an agreement.

Nov. 6, 1998 -- At a 1 1/2 hour-meeting, the union fails to give the owners a new proposal as promised.

Nov. 20 -- The sides meet for 13 hours and admit for the first time that they've made substantial progress.

Nov. 25 -- Union says it misunderstood a key aspect of owners' Nov. 20 proposal.

Dec. 4 -- Sides meet for 11 hours, after which commissioner David Stern says it is more likely than not that there won't be a season.

Dec. 23 -- Stern and players' union head Billy Hunter meet for five hours in Los Angeles at the office of agent Leonard Armato

.

Dec. 27 -- Sides meet for five hours in Denver, with the league making its "final" proposal.

Jan. 4 -- Union presents its "final" offer to owners, and Stern says league might use replacement players in the 1999-2000 season.

Jan. 5 -- NBA players begin arriving in New York on the eve of a scheduled vote by the union membership on whether to support the negotiating committee's rejection of the league's last proposal.

Jan. 6 -- After a secret, all-night negotiating session, Stern and Hunter reach agreement to end the lockout the day before the league's "drop dead" date to cancel the season.

Click to expand...

A_3PO · Nov 21, 2011

ascaptjack said: ↑

ChrisMannixSI Chris Mannix
If David Stern's 'look at the calendar' scheduling philosophy is to be believed, Friday is deadline for a deal before X-mas games are out
Click to expand...

Everyone, please read above.

ascaptjack · Nov 21, 2011

A_3PO said: ↑

Everyone, please read above.
Click to expand...

Did you read the latest K-Berg CBS article I posted a couple pages back?

I had some optimism that talk would renew before Thanksgiving but every indication is that it's too late. We would have had some news by now.

If no games by Christmas, I think both sides should just concede that their will not be a 2011-2012 NBA season. I think it's pointless having another 50 game season.

coachbadlee · Nov 21, 2011

ascaptjack said: ↑

Did you read the latest K-Berg CBS article I posted a couple pages back?

I had some optimism that talk would renew before Thanksgiving but every indication is that it's too late. We would have had some news by now.

If no games by Christmas, I think both sides should just concede that their will not be a 2011-2012 NBA season. I think it's pointless having another 50 game season.
Click to expand...

Stern agrees.

ascaptjack · Nov 21, 2011

TIFWIW, but I used to be a member on the Realcavsfans.com board and one of their insiders, a poster by the name of "Wine and Gold" posted that their have been some "secret" negotiations going on for the past weekend. He's legit from what every poster on that board claims. Take it with a grain of salt if you may, but here is the link.

http://realcavsfans.com/showthread....BA-CBA-WATCH&p=1219931&viewfull=1#post1219931

I actually was told otherwise this morning. I was told by one of the player reps I know that secret negotiations have been going on. Took Sunday off, but are continuing. Obviously, these type talks we knew would be going on, but they simply can't be for public consumption because, as we know, the union no longer exists as a union ...

Not sure even what the level of these talks would be, or who is involved. But, I'll try to find out what I can. You can be assured that everyone isn't just sitting around waiting for court dates that neither side wants to have to have play out. But, what I would presume is both sides have some fresh faces at the table trying to work through compromises on the additional items that are on the table, to go along with the main issues of luxury taxes etc ... If and when things look close, the union will simply reconstitute. When we see the union reconstitute it will be everyone's sign that the "secret" negotiations have been fruitful and a deal is imminent.
Click to expand...

ascaptjack · Nov 21, 2011

sheridanhoops Chris Sheridan
David Boies and Billy Hunter are giving a "litigation update" at 6 p.m. EST. So there will be some NBA lockout news tonight.

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