In This Thread Every Post Must Contain A Lockout Update

Teams sell season tickets, but then the seats stay
empty until the playoffs. I don't think the NBA has the same cultural buzz it once had, nor do I see the youngest generation as enthusiastic about pro sports as they are about video games.

 

Looks like the season is over before it even started...nice...

 

They had to destroy the village in order to save it!

For the right-to-make-a-profit-crowd: I think entrepreneurs have a right to try to make a profit, but their success in that is up to them. Likewise -- and probably more fundamentally -- workers have a right to accept or decline employment based on the conditions of that employment. If they don't feel like compensation or working conditions are good enough, they can refuse. So, we have entrepreneurs engaged in their right to pursue a profit and workers engaged in their right to accept gainful employment. There is no morality tale here. The players don't owe it to the owners to let them have a profit. The owners don't have a moral obligation to provide the working conditions and the pay that the players want. There is only what each entity has the power to secure for itself given its market power. I wish I could stop hearing about how the owners have a right to turn a profit, because the players don't owe it to them. It's just business.

 

Abbott asked Wasserman and Kessler about that today and they both exploded on him before he could finish.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/33289/union-makes-big-move-without-polling-members

The idea this thing was unanimous is a total joke, especially after Chris Duhon said Magic players wanted to vote.

 

Nice. rep'd

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/33289/union-makes-big-move-without-polling-members

 

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
At last meeting last week, player reps given Powerpoint presentation on deal. When some asked for hard copy to share w/teammates ... denied

 

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
Source close to Durant says Thunder star will now widen his net and talk to more teams beyond Valencia, BBC Bayreuth and Maccabi Tel Aviv

 

I would be really surprised if people making $3-4/hr can make enough money to support players even compared to european salaries.

 

Who made the powerpoint? More importantly what sound effects did he use?

 

How did you think Kevin Martin and JR Smith are in China not Europe?

 

Ridiculous. As player representatives they’re supposed to educate their players on what’s going on and let them have a voice. No excuse whatsoever for keeping them in the dark and not letting them vote.

 

RicBucher Ric Bucher
Stan Kasten, former executive for Hawks/Braves/Nats, says there are 6 weeks of negotiating time left to get a deal done before season lost.

 

Of course it makes sense in terms that "capologists" think is good for the league. But that is BS. This is no where close to making competitive balance, and you know it. This is just incremental acceptance by 'capologist' to play their (our) role as being "objective." -- as in is Proposal A better than B. Yet, you forget what capologist (us) won't compare the current CBA proposals to: We aren't comparing it to what we dreamed of as parity six months ago. The NBA system changes suck for parity. It is no where close to what we all hoped for 6-12 months ago. I've been a capologist for years and am given credit for reviewing one of Larry Coon's FAQ...my name is on it. And I actually think this is not enough system changes to create parity, from a capologists standpoint.

Don't tell me the last NBA proposal is good for parity. It is good mainly for profit.


A BRI of 50% plus these terms is just too much lack of negotiation for the union to accept. There was no negotiation here. You can't say, "I am a capologist and the system terms are fair" with no regard for the players going from 57 to 50 in the same "negotiations."

This is not negotiation...the owners pushed the players off a cliff.

And now we read a B-list item is contraction. Contraction is the whole solution, and this B-list item confirms it. The NBA will contract, yet they just don't want the Union to benefit from that.

 

Except now that there is no union who will be on the negotiating table?

 

Why?

Foreign leagues aren’t in great shape economically either. To the extent players sometimes don’t get paid, trips are done by bus, etc. I don’t think the owners are concerned about this possibility. And as fans on this BBS, we’d at least finally get to see what OHMMS is talking about!

But really, for players 6-8 on an NBA squad, going overseas will certainly give them a paycheck, but I don’t think they’ll all find places that quickly, and it’ll be a huge huge downgrade in lifestyle for them.

They’d have been much better off accepting the owner proposal, and would still be better off accepting even a crappier proposal now likely to come from the owners. This has to be partly why players weren't given a vote opportunity themselves. A guy making $1-$3 million a year voting to stay relatively in that range, with all kinds of other benefits, or to maybe try and get a job, overseas, in a foreign country, not able to really afford his crew to be around him, away from family, making a lot less money, traveling on buses, maybe not getting paid, and then likely getting little playing time or having a tougher time fitting in the new league (which not the NBA in terms of talent level, has its own difficulties).

Maybe true, and maybe just a function of what’s easier to remember, but seems like there are always a lot more REALLY overpaid players than there are underpaid ones.

Because the owners, both collectively and on an individual basis, should have an expectation of making a profit. Of course profit is a nebulous word. But suffice it to say, I happen to agree with DD here that even the best forensic accounting, even if it uncovers some fishy reporting, there will be multiple owners who are legally and technically showing and incurring losses.

For owners to make a profit, they should expect players to cover more than the losses and for the system to change to make for a more balanced league, financially.

I would agree, however, that the system changes shouldn’t be all on the players. Revenue sharing amongst owners should be a bigger issue. The Knicks and Lakers don’t make all that money if they’re not playing the Bucks and Hornets of the world.

Because the truth of the matter is Kobe Bryant with average players = first round exits, Kobe Bryant with a team full of all stars = championships. It’s not about having one of the best 30 players on your team. It’s about having 2 of the top 10, or 3 of the top 30. Even the Mavs this year, that was a team that had the best player (certainly in the playoffs nobody really came close), and then an amazing amount of above average, all-star level talent.

I think the idea that it’s impossible to have more competitive balance in the NBA is misguided. There’s a better system to be had. And even understanding that means the Jazz or Bobcats of the world might be more likely to win then the Rockets, I think it makes for a more exciting product. But that’s just my opinion, others certainly prefer seeing Lakers vs. Celtics over and over and over again.

I don’t know, but it’s just as likely that the union is elected to negotiate on the players behalf. I can employ someone to negotiate on my behalf, but still want the control the ultimate decision.

Finals ratings have improved over the 4 years, but still remain well below where they were in the 90’s. Not sure what the argument is here, but just pointing out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Basketball_Association_Nielsen_ratings

Juan, exactly… in line with my comments above. The owners certainly hoped they were signing a good deal last time around, too. It certainly wasn’t as good as expected.

It’s all conjecture now, but it seems the prevailing opinion is that the players aren’t going to get a great deal out of this, whenever and however it ends. Will it be better than the one they just turned down? Hard to see how it will be much better, if at all. Only reality in hindsight will be able to shine a light on who is “right” and who is “wrong”, so we’ll have to wait and see the outcome.

 

If there was no negotiation the deal would have been 47% for the players and a hard cap with no garunteed contracts. The union clearly has no regard for the millions the owners were losing while the players were making their garunteed millions with zero risk.

 

Right...except imo many players are going to see that it was better for them to accept. In fact many would have voted in favor if given the chance. Hunter clearly does not represent the PRESENT group of players, who I think regardless of who wins in the long run, should have the say for today's deal.

To be quite honest, we fans who will never make near as much as money as owners or players should have more of a say to increase the pressure for a deal to be reached, because without us there is no them.

Not really siding with either, but as a person who just wants to see some goddam basketball, I'm disappointed in the players union. The ball was in their court, and they fumbled it

 

There is no cliff for a millionaire, unless one has a dozens of wives and children to feed.

 

Don't the foreign leagues usually cut the player's salaries as soon as they come over? Deron made $15 mil last season makes less than the MLE. I think $1-5 mil was estimated.

The PIIGS and the rest of Europe are on shaky economic ground. It could be the start of more layoffs and paycuts, which leaves less disposable income for basketball.