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In This Thread Every Post Must Contain A Lockout Update

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by DallasThomas, Nov 1, 2011.

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ascaptjack Member

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NBA_Labor NBA Labor
NBA Proposal: 50/50 split in band of 49-51% as suggested by mediator. Same formula for sharing BRI incr & decr that PA proposed to NBA

NBA_Labor NBA Labor
NBA Proposal: PA asked & NBA said yes - no hard cap; fully guaranteed contracts; no "rollbacks" to existing plyr contracts

#401 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011

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KauffmanSports Steve Kauffman by HowardBeckNYT
Where r players that should be pushing for vote on deal?? Owners are simply not bluffing..U get larger pct than NFL guys and longer careers

stevekylerNBA Steve Kyler by KauffmanSports
Most agents and insiders agree - make some small tweaks to the offer on the table, and get it done - not much of a fight to be had.

TheRealC_Los Carlos Douglas Jr. by KauffmanSports
RT @KauffmanSports Agents polling players on decert hopefully also ask: Do u want NBA proposal put to vote KNOWING it gets worse after WED?

#402 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011
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ascaptjack said: ↑

NBA_Labor NBA Labor
NBA Proposal: 50/50 split in band of 49-51% as suggested by mediator. Same formula for sharing BRI incr & decr that PA proposed to NBA

NBA_Labor NBA Labor
NBA Proposal: PA asked & NBA said yes - no hard cap; fully guaranteed contracts; no "rollbacks" to existing plyr contracts
Click to expand...

NBA_Labor NBA Labor
NBA Proposal: Midlevel exception will start @ $5M in Y1 & grow

#403 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011
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jhatem jay hatem by sam_amick
@NazrMohammed bro. Owners don't want a season. If you reject the offer they will be happy. Best thing to do is cut your losses and accept

#404 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011
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ascaptjack said: ↑

NBA_Labor NBA Labor
NBA Proposal: Midlevel exception will start @ $5M in Y1 & grow
Click to expand...

NBA_Labor NBA Labor
NBA system will have 30 teams spending btw $2B & $3B per season. Enormous opportunity for all free agents

#405 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011
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WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski

The NBA and NBPA are seriously discussing setting up a meeting for Tuesday to try and reach agreement on a labor deal, league source tells Y
Click to expand...

#406 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011
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alanhahn Alan Hahn
David Stern will be on @ESPN's SportsCenter next. #NBA #NBPA

#407 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011

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WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
No meeting finalized, but sides were working toward session in NY before time runs out Wednesday on NBA's ultimatum for union to take deal.

#408 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011
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LOL the NBA (NBA_Labor) and NBPA (TheNBPA) are engaging in twitter beef.

TheNBPA NBPA @
@NBA_Labor Under NBA proposal 13.7% rollback on midlevel, no increase until year 3. Midlevel for taxpayers is 56% rollback.

TheNBPA NBPA @
@NBA_Labor Under NBA proposal, taxpayers will have extremely limited free agent opportunities.

TheNBPA NBPA @
@NBA_Labor Under NBA proposal, midlevel for taxpayers with 56% reduction only available every other year.

TheNBPA NBPA @
@NBA_Labor As to PA asked & NBA said yes...it is not considered a concession to give players what they've already had for 30 years.

Not a good look for both sides. It's childish and Stern and Hunter should delete both of their respective accounts or urge whoever that's running them to calm down.

#409 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011
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alanhahn Alan Hahn
Twitter war! RT @HowardBeckNYT: The NBA-NBPA debate just officially moved to Twitter, with @TheNBPA replying to @NBA_Labor tweet.

sam_amick Sam Amick
So I called two agents today who represent a combined 19 players. They said that all 19 want the players to take the NBA's deal.

NittanyClipper David McCaslin by HowardBeckNYT@
@HowardBeckNYT @TheNBPA @NBA_Labor its like watching two robots have a debate over which came first the chicken or the egg

LarryCoon Larry Coon
If @NBA_Labor and @NBPA have the next negotiating session entirely via Twitter, we can have the media stakeout at my place, with pizza.

#410 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011
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Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
One player rep told me he's leaning toward pushing for acceptance of deal at Tuesday's union meeting; another said he's undecided....

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Lakers guard Steve Blake has been active on phones, encouraging peers to push team player reps to ask NBPA for vote on deal, sources tell Y!

#411 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011
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WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Blake isn't urging players to vote 'yes' or 'no' on league proposal, but has gained a swell of support with players who want chance to vote.

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Anthony Parker, Cavs player rep, said he favors rejecting deal. Said Cavs teammates and player reps he's spoken with are also against deal.

#412 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011
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What our very own Kevin Martin thinks about the current deal.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/11/07/kevin.martin.nba.labor/index.html

With NBA commissioner David Stern threatening to erase months of negotiating progress by Wednesday if players refuse to accept the deal that is currently on the table, Kevin Martin -- an eight-year veteran who is owed $24 million over the next two seasons -- believes it's time for players to accept the proposal and get back to work.

"If you know for sure [the owners] are not moving, then you take the best deal possible," Martin wrote in a text message to SI.com. "We are risking losing 20 to 25 percent of missed games that we'll never get back, all over 2 percent [of basketball-related income] over an eight- to 10-year period [of the eventual collective bargaining agreement]. And let's be honest: 60 to 70 percent of players won't even be in the league when the next CBA comes around."

Martin's profile is a fascinating one in the current context. His agent is Dan Fegan, a man who is widely known to be among the group of seven agents who have spent recent months pushing for decertification of the union. Martin is also a member of Michael Jordan's team of players on the Jordan Brand, a group that also includes the likes of Chris Paul, Dwyane Wade, Carmelo Anthony and Ray Allen.

Jordan, who once famously told Washington owner Abe Pollin during the 1998-99 lockout that "if you can't make it work economically, you should sell the team" during his playing days, was painted as the hardest of hard-line owners in a New York Times report last week, and numerous players were quick to criticize his perceived hypocrisy. But while Martin did not discuss Jordan, he clearly sees the risk of decertifying or refusing the proposal as greater than any possible reward.

"When players are negotiating as free agents, we're always saying, 'Well I'm going to do what's best for my family,'" he wrote. "So now we're lying, because right now, losing money isn't helping our families at all. I'm not criticizing the fight our union is doing, because they have been in every meeting adding up to countless hours and have been breaking down every number possible. I believe in them and know they have the best interest for us. My opinion -- which is just one of 450 players -- is that if it comes down to losing a season and 100 percent of the money, we all definitely have to sit down and think about reality. That doesn't sound smart to possibly become part of the country's growing unemployment rate."

Martin's premise, of course, would change if he thought Stern wouldn't follow through with the owners' threat. But even the most ardent Stern critics don't see this as a bluff, leading some to believe that the entire NBA season is unofficially on the line long before it was expected to be.

The 1998-99 lockout ended on Jan. 7 and a 50-game season was still salvaged, but the owners who have spent the last two years longing for a major overhaul to the system clearly have different plans this time around. Those owners, and not Stern, are clearly in control at the moment.

"There's no doubt in my mind that David Stern would be jumping for joy at this deal [if he was in control]," said an agent who has been involved in the push for decertification. "There's no way he would want to do the damage to the league he's going to do with all the concessions the players have made. He would look at this like a home-run deal and be done with it. It's pretty amazing that he has lost so much control of it."

Martin, who was ninth in the league in scoring last season (23.5 points per game), is hardly the first player to voice his desire to cut their losses and get back to work. Two agents who spoke with SI.com on Monday and who represent a combined 19 players said that every one of their clients believes the players should accept the deal. And as confirmed by SI.com on Saturday, the Lakers' Kobe Bryant has made his feelings known to the union and fellow players that he would strongly consider a 50-50 split depending on the nature of the agreed-upon system. His believed bottom line, much like Martin's, is that the season was not worth sacrificing if the negotiations came down to a couple percentage points on BRI.

Washington center JaVale McGee said after a regional players meeting in Los Angeles on Oct. 14 that "There's definitely some guys in there saying that they're ready to fold." Cavaliers forward Samardo Samuels tweeted on Oct. 28 that he was just fine with 50-50. Celtics big man Glen Davis shared his similar view via Twitter on Nov. 2, writing "Take the 51 percent man and let's play."

Of course Davis' premise was off, as the owners had not -- and still haven't -- offered 51 percent of BRI for players. As it stands, Stern is threatening to drop the current BRI of, in essence, 50-50 to 47 percent if this deal isn't accepted by Wednesday while also instituting salary rollbacks and a hard-cap system much like that of the NHL. He detailed those threats in a letter to the players that was obtained by the New York Times. The NBPA executive committee was scheduled to hold a conference call Monday to discuss their next move, and player representatives from all 30 teams will meet in New York on Tuesday to get a broader consensus. Yahoo!'s Adrian Wojnarowski reported late Monday that the sides are working toward meeting on Tuesday before the Wednesday deadline.
Click to expand...

Go Martin!

#413 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011

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ChrisMannixSI Chris Mannix
David Stern, once again, on TV talking to the rank-and-file players.

FisolaNYDN Frank Isola
David Stern on ESPN: "We have a great offer on the table."

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Parker said players have 2 options: accept deal or decertify. He thinks players could decertify and get deal done in time for season.

ChrisMannixSI Chris Mannix
Fisher/Hunter declining to respond to Stern on SportsCenter is a mistake.

FisolaNYDN Frank Isola
Stern: "I don’t want to say when we would call off the season because clearly we’re not there yet & I don’t want to make an idle threat"

#414 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011
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sam_amick Sam Amick
Can confirm @WojYahooNBA tweet about Lakers' Steve Blake rallying the "silent majority" troops. Blake is irate at union and wants to play.

#415 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011
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Kind of interesting because Blake is Fisher's teammate and isn't the only teammate that would accept the current deal as reported by SI.com that Kobe would accept it as well.

Ball is in your court Fisher, you will listen to Blake and Kobe! LOL.

#416 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011
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http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infom...ed:c=sports_blogs&feed:i=1.3303239&nopaging=1

The union leaders called it "unacceptable." The NBA called it the last offer they will make with any concessions off their original position.

So let's present to you the major points of the NBA's latest proposal and leave it to you to decide if it is a good deal or a bad deal and why.

(Credit information to Howard Beck of the New York Times, who obtained the letter with the official proposal from the NBA to the NBPA ):

BASKETBALL RELATED INCOME SPLIT: Basically a 50-50 deal, with stipulations that could see it drop to 49-51 in favor of owners if league revenue fails to meet expectations and could see it increase to 51-49 if revenue exceeds expectations, though neither alternative scenario is likely.

SALARY CAP: Soft cap with a luxury tax threshold. The first two years of the deal will follow the former CBA's system to allow time for taxpaying teams to adjust. In the third year of the deal, the new system, with a tax of will be enforced. This includes a "repeat offender" tax of $1 for every $1 over the threshold, on top of the usual tax charge.

SIGN-AND-TRADE: Only allowed by teams not over the tax threshold at the time of the trade.

EXTEND-AND-TRADE (such as the Carmelo Anthony deal last season): No longer allowed.

MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION: $5 million salary (grows 3 percent annually after third year of CBA), maximum length of three years and four years (alternates each year) ONLY available to teams not over the tax threshold. Those paying tax can use a MLE of $2.5 million (same 3 percent growth as full MLE) with two year maximum, but may not use it in consecutive years.

BI-ANNUAL EXCEPTION: Only allowed by teams not over the tax threshold at the time of the signing.

CONTRACTS: "Bird" Rights players get five years max, with four years for others. Annual raises maxed at 5.5 percent for "Bird" players, 3.5 percent for others. Team and player options are prohibited, other than in rookie deals. A player may opt out of the final year of his contract only if he agrees that the final year is not guaranteed.

CURRENT SALARIES: No rollbacks and players will be paid a prorated share of 2011-12 salaries based on game total.

ESCROW: The league will withold 10 percent of player salaries to ensure a 50-50 split is achieved. If player earnings fall below 50 percent of league revenue, the escrow will be returned to the players at the end of the season. There will be additional money withheld to, according to Stern's letter, "account for business uncertainty" as a result of the lockout.
Click to expand...

You can't tell me that is isn't a fair deal.

#417 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011
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daldridgetnt David Aldridge
Per source, still no vote expected--even a non-binding one--among player reps on current labor proposal at tomorrow's union meeting.

#418 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011

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FisolaNYDN Frank Isola
Classic Stern speaking directly to the players and telling them that Obama's appointed mediator recommended 5 of the 6 proposals in deal.

ZachLowe_SI Zach Lowe
Steve Blake signed a 4-yr, $16M mid-level exception deal on a taxpaying team that would be disallowed under league's proposal. Nice timing.

#419 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011
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http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7...n-consensus-unlikely-owners-offer-source-says

While the NBA Players Association's executive committee is staunchly against accepting the league's recent "ultimatum" offer, it is not a certainty that the player reps who will meet with them Tuesday will feel the same way, a source close to the situation told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard on Monday.

The source said some of the reps may favor decertification while others may want to accept the deal.

"I don't think there's going to be a consensus," the source said. "And that would be a problem."

The NBA owners have locked out the players, and little progress has been made in negotiations. ESPN.com Topics keeps you up to date with all of the latest on the NBA's ongoing lockout. Topics Page »

Anthony Parker, the representative for the Cleveland Cavaliers, said he is for rejecting the league's offer, while one player rep who did not want to be identified told ESPN.com that he is leaning toward voting to accept the deal.

"Most of the people I'm talking with don't like the deal," Parker said. "We don't think it's a good deal for the players."

Parker said he realizes that if the players reject the deal, decertification may be their only option.

"Being for decertification does not mean you want the season to be cancelled," said Parker. "Even if we decertify there will still be plenty of time to get a deal done and that's our hope."

With a Wednesday deadline looming to accept the league's latest labor proposal, player representatives from all 30 teams have been summoned by the union to New York for the mandatory meeting to update them on negotiations, sources have told ESPN.com.

Union sources have said the executive board remains unwilling to present that offer to the union's estimated 450 members for a vote and plans to make that stance clear to team player reps at the meeting.

Sources told ESPN.com that union leaders have not budged from the view that the NBA's offer is "unacceptable," just as NBPA president Derek Fisher described it in the wee hours of Sunday morning once Saturday's marathon bargaining session finally ended.

On Monday, meanwhile, sources say that the players and agents backing the decertification of the union have scheduled another conference call to follow the two conference calls -- each with at least 50 players dialed in -- that took place last week.

The Players Association's executive board was also set to conduct a conference call Monday to discuss its options before Tuesday's meeting, Spurs forward Matt Bonner, a committee member, told the San Antonio Express-News.

No new negotiations are scheduled after the parties spent nearly nine hours negotiating under the auspices of federal mediator George Cohen. NBA commissioner David Stern emerged from those talks saying that the union had until the end of business Wednesday to take a deal that the league says will pay players up to 51 percent of annual basketball related income or prepare to brace itself to receive an offer that tops out at 47 percent of BRI and features the more restrictive flex cap that the players emphatically shot down in June.

"We hope that this juxtaposition will cause the union to assess its position and accept the deal," Stern said at a news conference early Sunday morning.

There is no evidence in circulation yet to suggest that more than a handful of rank-and-file players are lobbying the union to put Saturday's offer from the owners to a vote.

Stern has already canceled the entire month of November -- which means that an entire new schedule will have to be written up when the lockout is lifted -- and has said that there is no longer sufficient time left on the calendar to stage an entire 82-game regular season.
Click to expand...

NEWS FLASH Parker: There will be no season if you decertify. No time, you may even lose parts of the 2012-2013 season since these court rulings take YEARS not just MONTHS.

#420 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011

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