In This Thread Every Post Must Contain A Lockout Update

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski

 

ChrisMannixSI Chris Mannix
I just wish the players would make the Steve Nash, Shane Battier, Grant Hill types more visible. They are excellent at breaking it down.

 

Not if the smaller franchises can still not turn a profit.

DD

 

How do you know?

Apparently the owners want to blow the players out. Victory simply isn't enough. It's like they have a 30point lead, and they still want to drain a 3 with the clock winding down.

 

KBergCBS Ken Berger

 

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/33174769

 

Site your sources

 

Go through all the tweets this post have been put up. There have been several that stated the owners want to pound the player's union, and want complete victory.

There's a tweet by that Yahoo guy (Woj) that says the owners want not only victory, but do alley-oops while doing it.

found it:

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Owners had won labor deal by 30 points but want to keep press on, throw alley-oops, win by 40. Hey, someone's going to give a hard foul here

The owners won. They need to get over it, and just start the season.

 

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski

 

"If you can’t make a profit, you should sell your team."

. . .

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/08/s...o-union-stern-details-his-ultimatum.html?_r=1

 

Unless the NBA's legal staff is as incompetent as the players union, this threat has already been considered and will not scare them at all.

 

I assume this means any team that paid a tax at the close of the books for the previous season.

Question--So, a team that was 1 cent under in 2011, they could do a SnT that nets them a full max-player salary, and sends them way over the projected tax line for 2012??

 

Please stick to the rules of the OP and keep this thread for lockout updates only.

MMMMMKAY??? Thanks !



DD

 

the same rockets that won 2 titles within the last 20 years. while i don't agree with everything tmac1 is bringing up, he is largely right on one thing. much like momentum in baseball is tomorrow's starting pitchers, parity in basketball is next year's superstar draft pick. pick jordan and hakeem and duncan and win titles. don't and don't.

we seem to have a pretty good chance. if tmac and yao's bodies hadn't exploded, we could have made some pretty deep playoff runs, even before we got morey and his much better role player acquiring skills.

while going up against all the other teams with way more cap room? yes i did.

please list all of the big market teams who have stockpiled talent through free agency recently? i'm guessing that will be hard because once you go over the cap, you can't do that, no matter how big your market. lakers? nope. celtics? nope. heat, bulls, knicks? nope. none of the biggest free agents from last season went to a team that was simply outspending others. they went to teams that underspent others and had cap room.

the system that generated record revenue and high ratings won't work? hmm, i guess i have a different definition of "working."

person 1: man, this was one of the most exciting and most watched seasons i can remember, it was great.

person 2: really?

person 1: yeah, but i'd rather lose all of next season than have to endure something so awful again.

person 2: uhh, what?


i swear, you crying "competitive balance" and "good of the game" is like listening to the players cry decertification. like a 4 year old that just learned a new word without knowing what it means. i'm not completely sure you even know what it is that you want and i'm even less confident you know how to bring it about. allow me to be the competitive balance cadre:

i want every team to be profitable, but i'll act like it's a system issue and not a BRI split issue. moving money from the players to owners is how you make them profitable, not by having guaranteed or non-guaranteed contracts or deciding whether taxpayers can use the MLE.

i want competitive balance, but i'll rarely, if ever, bring up total revenue sharing, by far the biggest factor that could bring about balance by forcing all teams into the same profit/loss vs win/loss calculations. instead i'll pretend that it's a player/owner issue and that fighting over sign and trade rules is really the key to it all and worth losing a season over (just have patience, losing the season is no big deal, lol). and i'll certainly not bring up getting rid of max contracts, the real system factor (ironically put in to save the owners from themselves) that allowed the thing i hate most, the miami heat big 3, to form under the cap because 3 max contracts can fit under the cap. i'll ignore that a hard cap with max contracts actually hurts competitive balance, because the teams blessed with the top 3 to 5 players actually get to be the only people underpaying their best player, thus freeing up their other money to acquire even more talent.

we want player movement but that whole miami heat thing, where the players moved, we don't want that. that's the wrong kind of player movement. i think we might need a franchise tag which is a ridiculous concept of keeping an employee where they don't want to be.

i want smart management to be rewarded, but i want to get rid of guaranteed contracts, thus rendering most decisions made my smart managers practically irrelevant beyond the season for which they were made. the fact those are basically mutually exclusive propositions doesn't bother me.

i'll whine about big market teams that stockpiled talent at the expense of our rockets and completely ignore how it happened. that the rockets actually spent more money than new york, chicago, and miami last year and that those teams simply built up cap room and used it. shockingly, new york and miami with lots of cap room beat out houston without a lot of cap room. who could have foreseen such a thing. better make a up a rule to somehow stop that. hell, even the lakers and their huge payroll didn't really involve acquiring anyone with their money, they simply kept everyone and paid a lot. they got gasol with an expiring, odom with shaq, and bynum through the draft.

it's funny how you think a league that just had record revenues and a huge spike in ratings needs a complete overhaul "for the good of the game" and that losing a season coming off record revenues is just a ho-hum, run of the mill decision. sounds like the game is plenty good. the only problem seems to be the owners not getting enough of the revenue to make money. that's a BRI split issue, not a system issue. split BRI to make the owners profitable, split revenue to make every owner profitable, and let's move on with an apparent revenue and ratings generating system that seems to have worked quite well for allowing small market and big market teams with good management to win.

 

Francis,

That was a long and wrong rebuttal.

Your entire premis is based upon revenue, ignoring the facts of cost. Teams lost money, did they not?

If the owners suddenly started giving out smaller contracts, don't you think a cry of "COLLUSION" would be coming from the union?

This is a chance for the owners to reset the system which has spun out of control, where the monies for the players have gotten so large that they are willing to forgoe the controls put in place by the last CBA to encourage them to stay with small market franchises.

The Rockets are NOT a small market franchise, they are a mid market one, but Cleveland, Indiana, and Milwaukee are small market teams, who struggle to lure talent or keep it in their organizations.

Is the system the owners are tying to implement perfect - no.....getting rid of guaranteed contracts would be my wet dream.....

I would keep the same system as now if the owners could cut players without pay....

But since that is unreasonable at this time, I want a viable league that makes it a tougher decision for Lebron to leave Cleveland....

I don't care if you like it or not, it is what I want....lol.

DD

 

DD couldn't milwalkee have signed drew gooden to a contract that ended this offseason or phoenix the same with Childress? Who were they competing with to sign these guys? Phoenix has traded picks for years passing on Dengs and Rondos on cheap contracts. And waisting on scrubs. I do not feel sorry for those guys. There are a lot of top notch GMs that have been available lately Cho, Pritchard, Walsh, etc. GMs like that can get talent thru drafts if that's the hand that's dealt to them.

Cleveland could have lured the talented Amare to the cavs...

 

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
While Union's Exec Committee is firmly against accepting NBA's ultimatum offer, sources say player reps may feel differently...

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
some reps may favor decertification, while others may want to accept the deal. "I don't think there's going to be a consensus,''source said

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
All 30 player reps are scheduled to meet tomorrow (Tuesday) in NYC

 

There were 7 players who've made all-nba & all star games in free agency (that weren't miles over the hill) last years, let's list them in a loose decreasing player order.

Lebron James - Left Cleveland for Miami.
Dwyane Wade - Stayed in Miami
Dirk Nowitzki - Stayed in Dallas
Amar'e Stoudemire - Left Phoenix for New York
Joe Johnson - Stayed in Atlanta
Chris Bosh - Left Toronto for Miami
Carlos Boozer - Left Utah for Chicago

So from this, you have 4 players from small market teams who left for big market teams, one who stayed in a big market and two who stayed in medium markets. (I would however like to point out that Houston and surrounding has the 5th largest GDP of any greater metro area in the US, above Houston is only NY, LA, Chi and DC greater areas, and the last one is mostly government waste lol).

Medium markets can do ok, particularly in large greater metro areas, small markets are completely boned atm, it shouldn't shock anyone that the two owners who came out in the last talks were from metro areas of under 2.5m population.

It's not really about stopping what Miami did happening again, it's about stopping the teams with stacked payrolls (aka the Lakers) from being able to do anything, it's also about stopping Superfriends from being able to perpetually grab a 6m (or 2x3 or whatever) a year player every year to fill out the roster. Remember when Riley said it was a "2 year plan", this is part of what he was talking about.

 

Well at least some are considering it at least.

I like what I heard from Magic on sportscenter earlier. He was basically telling the players that they have to understand the previous deals they had were because of different circumstances and that they need to accept this deal. He also said that many players won't be able to go the entire year without a NBA check.

I hope some NBA players were listening. If they look up to Michael then hopefully they look up to Magic. I wish more legends like Bill Russell would speak up to the players and tell them to wake up.