In This Thread Every Post Must Contain A Lockout Update

So true, so I favor a system that helps us get back to that as quickly as possible and one that favors moving players around - favors quality management - thus us !

DD

 

We got McGrady under the current CBA, b/c we had a rising star, who we DRAFTED b/c we SUCKED the year prior.

A star attracts other stars. Always has been the case, and always will be the case.

 

This is absolutely true, and our next superstar is going to be drafted, not traded for or signed.

 

Yes, like how OKC/Chicago/Washington/Cavs' success before Lebron left, and many more teams.

But seeing how OKC/Chicago are 2 of the top 4 teams for the foreseeable future, and they built ENTIRELY through the draft for the most part. And they represented a big media market (Chicago) and a small media market (OKC) going the same route to win.

And if you want stars to sign onto your team you need a legit star there. NY couldn't sign anybody for a decade, and they are the NUMBER ONE market. Boston sucks for years and nobody wanted to even mention that place. Chicago stunk it up FOR a decade also.

And we got McGrady b/c we traded our picks (Francis/Mobley/Cato).

Look, I don't care what system the NBA draws up, you're NOT going to get parity. There never was parity, and there never will be parity.

Now, drawing up a system that every team profits is a different story, and I'm sure that's what they're doing. But enough with the parity BS.

We won b/c we had a top 3 player in Dream. We could sign star FAs b/c we had a star to anchor our team prior to trading/signing those stars (first Hakeem, then Yao, who we both DRAFTED).

EDIT: forgot to mention another dynasty (Spurs) built through the draft.

 

Call me tired of the fact one team has made the finals 16 times in the last 32 years despite having drafted only one player who has been in more than 1 all star game (and never made a 1st or 2nd team) since 1982.

The system is boned, and it's the system that's the holdup, the ability for every mid level player of any value to go play for one of them, regardless of how far above the salary cap they are. They players are trying to use previous BRI as a wedge issue and the owners are well beyond biting, they've been trying to negotiate increased flexibility as a part of the whole "bring the BRI down", it's not working.

Personally I won't be that unhappy if the players don't bite at 50%, and the hard liners get complete control to drive it down to 47% with a flex cap.

Until the players accept that the owners collectively aren't going to allow you to go play for the lakers unless you're willing to accept 2.5m a year or the lakers give up more than they gain, these talks will stay stalled.

 

Ken Berger speaking the damn truth!

KBergCBS Ken Berger
Union source says mandatory player rep meeting in NY was discussed, but no final decision has been made.

KBergCBS Ken Berger
For those baffled why there's no deal: Guess how many sign-and-trades were executed by tax payers during previous CBA? No, really, guess.

KBergCBS Ken Berger
Your answer, from union source: FIVE sign-and-trade deals were done by tax-paying teams during previous six-year CBA.

KBergCBS Ken Berger
This is something season could be canceled over, folks. FIVE sign-and-trades in six years. And wait until you hear what they were...

KBergCBS Ken Berger
Three in '05-'06: Knicks-Eddy Curry; Memphis-Marko Jaric; Lakers-Kwame Brown and Laron Profit. Destroyers of competitive balance, all.

KBergCBS Ken Berger
Two in '09-'10: Suns-Hedo Turkoglu (basketball-driven deal); Mavs-Shawn Marion.

KBergCBS Ken Berger
So one could argue, the season could be canceled over an issue that doesn't matter that much to either side.

KBergCBS Ken Berger
Also, who couldn't love the irony that of the five sign-and-trades by tax-payers during previous CBA, two were done by Sarver and Heisley?

KBergCBS Ken Berger
Heat weren't tax-payers RT @ABart7 @KBergCBS Weren't LeBron/Bosh sign and trades?

KBergCBS Ken Berger
Bulls weren't tax-payers. RT @TheBMax @KBergCBS Boozer to Bulls from Jazz is one.

KBergCBS Ken Berger
Exactly. RT @caronage @KBergCBS Who is Laron Profit?

KBergCBS Ken Berger
Cleared cap space to acquire players. So? RT @doktakra @KBergCBS But won't the Heat, Lakers, Mavs, Bulls, Knicks, etc. be tax-payers now?

 

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Front office officials of two teams say owners returned from Saturday meeting telling staff to prepare for strong possibility of no season.

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
As I hear from players, I will be surprised if there isn't some kind of membership push to take NBA's offer. How big of one? Still unknown.

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
One thing is becoming clear to me: Manner with which owners have tried to railroad through ultimatum is driving players together, not apart.

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Exec. Committee will talk Monday about next step, take membership pulse, but there's no way they'll try to sell this offer to rank-and-rile.

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Isn't out of question NBPA Exec Committee will respond to owners by Wednesday w/ complete withdrawl of concessions. Essentially, bleep you.

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
As much as anything now, big hurdle to deal has become so many factions within ownership and union that there's no route to broad consensus.

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Owners pushed it here, because they think they can break union. Get them to take anything. Don't blame players for fighting back, resisting.

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Owners had won labor deal by 30 points but want to keep press on, throw alley-oops, win by 40. Hey, someone's going to give a hard foul here

 

I'm just glad the owners are going to win this and anxious to see a new balanced NBA, finally.

 

Since Les is not going to tank, how likely do you think it would be that we get another number 1 pick and Yao Ming?

No? EXACTLY.....new system benefits the smart players like Morey.

DD

 

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard

But how could the talks be going so well Chris!?

 

**** Chris Broussard!

 

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Federal Mediator George Cohen shuttled back & forth between the two rooms before bringing them together at the end for owners proposal

 

**** Chris Broussard!

 

Big name star free agents will only go to the best locations and teams that offer the best chance for winning in a system in which it makes little difference the amount the would lose.

I remember reading an article, I think Page 2 on ESPN, that argued that under the CBA of Jordan's era, the Miami Trio would have never happened. Simply because Bosh and James could have gotten 20-30 million from their own teams or by going by themselves to a different team than Miami. Because of the limits on max contracts, the amount of "discount" they take is small enough, that they will take the ability of the team to win into account. He is likely right.

In other words, no matter what system you try to enact, with limits on the max contracts (even with the Owners proposal) will not prevent stars from making the choice that Lebron & Bosh did.

The only people that those minor teams would be realistically be able to go after in any system are the mid-level stars and role players.

Then, isn't the owners arguments that teams like Minn with Garnett, Phoenix with Nash/Stoud, New Orleans with CP3, etc have not been profitable? I mean sure those teams could offer those max contracts, but they are trading profitability to do that. Even if the max caps for other teams are reduced, a number of those teams will still not spend that money.

 

And this is why the owners are dumb. And why we will not have a season.

And for those saying a new system will generate parity in the NBA, talk to me in 10-20 years.

 

It goes both ways. The Union and players are showing some asshattery as well.

 

The owners are not the dumb ones here, you are just impatient.

The owners are trying to fix the system, they are trying to create something that works for all teams.

If it takes the entire season, so what?

I would love for guaranteed contracts to be thrown out, then we would have players playing hard every game...

DD

 

Both sides are dumb, the players and owners.

 

What happened to Chris Johnson in the NFL? What happened to Jamarcus Russell? You're picking the players from the NBA, but yet there are examples of players slacking off after getting a big contract in every sport. You can pick a ton out of every sport.

Secondly, do you REALLY think every team in the NBA can be competitive? Since the advent of the NBA, when has there EVER been parity? That is not going to change. Stars rule the NBA, and teams with stars will have a greater chance of winning. That was a fact when it was Bill Russell and his all-stars won a bajillion championships, or Magic/Bird/Isiah and their all-stars, or Shaq/Kobe or Jordan/Pippen and so on.

The reason is there is simply NOT ENOUGH superstars to be spread out among all teams. There are 29-30 teams, but only really only 8-10 true franchise players in this league. So no matter what you do to the system, and even if you spread out those 8-10 stars, realistically only a number of teams will contend for the championship.

Furthermore, the owners simply want a system where every team can be PROFITABLE, and sometimes you don't have to be competitive to do that (look at the Clippers). Changing the system to be profitable is different from changing the system to generate parity across the entire league.

 

My questions is this.

Why won't the Union present this proposal by the owners to the rank and file players for a vote?

Are they scared that the 90% of the players would actually agree to it?