In This Thread Every Post Must Contain A Lockout Update

Deron Williams

https://twitter.com/#!/DeronWilliams/status/133100844307587072

 

So we really are going to lose a season of basketball?

 

Lol...this **** is getting entertaining now.

Egg all on the faces of the union. HAD they accepted the first deal they would be gearing up for a 82 game season right now. Instead their only option is to take one on Wednesday or see the deal drop.

Fisher can be all macho if he likes. Saying they will not be intimidated instead they look like a bunch of fools and most of em bout to be broke fools.

 

sounds like the owners want the players to decertify.

 

The machinists union where I work (I'm not a member) is currently on strike and the similarities to this are amazing. The company can easily outlast them, they've lost their health insurance and thousands of dollars in salary, plus we are hiring temporary workers now (which they have tried to intimidate). More and more cross the picket lines every week. About a quarter of the membership showed up at the union lodge to ask for a revote, but the leadership refused.

My guess is if the NBAPA leadership put the current proposal to a secret ballot, it would pass. A small minority of mostly already paid players are blustering about decertification, everyone else is silent or just expressing general frustration.

 

The hardline owners were ready to lose the season to begin with. They looked at what the NHL did as a success because they lost the season. You take a group of Rich, arrogant, schrewd businessmen, & Lawyers, and they believe in what they are doing.... uhhh forget about it. The season is toast. The union should have decertified this summer to start with.

 

If the players decertify yes. definitely.

 

The players will never make up the money they lost, i hope thevowners crush them, so we dont have to go yhrough this again.

DD

 

Flawless victory for owner vindictiveness and fuzzy accounting! Huzzah!

 

One more thing, Stern should take the offer public, to show all the players what the union is saying is not a proposal.

I think the NBA is afraid of decertification, so they arevtrying to force the majority of yhe union to accept the current deal.

They night get a better deal by decertifying, or it might get worse.

DD

 

How stupid can Hunter, Fisher and Kessler be? They are a disgrace. At this point, I hope the union decertifies to take away any excuse so the rank and file can see how incompetent these three clowns are.

 

No, you get a system that allows all the teams to compete instead of just the big market teams.

If they can't get complete revenue sharing that is the next best thing.

This last offseason was a great example......players all moved to major markets....NY, Miami, Chicago....

Time to level the playing field a bit....

DD

 

so... when grant hill, tim duncan and tracy mcgrady were all going to orlando, was this a problem then?

wait, it wasn't because duncan wanted to continue to line his pockets with the extra dough

the players are being schrewd for future generations and foregoing current dollars.

it will hurt the current generation, but if done properly, will help future.

nba owners are arguing for a long term deal based on short term economic conditions.

players are/were arguing for a deal that is predicated on variable market conditions.

yes, the current cba sucks and needs to be corrected.

yes, the bobcats, hornets and at least one other team should go away to make the league more viable.

however, that is not what is being argued by the owners. they are trying to salvage even the mediocre franchises.

what smart financial decision has jordan ever made as an owner? has he been fiscally responsible? why should a new agreement help his piss poor management?

 

I agree with you on this, DD. The owners want to scare the players into accepting a deal before a decertification vote gets anywhere near.

I also believe that the players' strategy had always been to petition for a decertification vote by now. If you count backwards from the drop dead date to have any season (January), this was the time by which to have a petition for a vote. It gives the players one last bit of leverage, the most real threat to the owners that the season would, in fact, be lost. The reason for the appearance of splintering among the players may largely be because threatening to decertify is technically not "allowed" as a negotiating tactic, so union leadership cannot publicly push this while at the same time negotiating with the league.


In general, I think the owners' latest offer appears pretty fair, system-wise. I wish the owners would have been willing to listen earnestly to the union's proposed BRI split, which apparently would have given the players 51%, with 1% going to fund benefits for retired players. I think that's a pretty reasonable offer, and I honestly believe the owners' unwillingness to even CONSIDER that offer is part of the problem with this lockout. They HAVE to "win" on BRI and just can't bring themselves to give the players more than they keep for themselves (never mind the $600-700 million they get off the top and some of the expenses they get to claim for income tax purposes). The union is only asking for 50% for CURRENT players. For the owners to be unwilling to budge on giving money to retired players (who may actually NEED that money), just so they can say that they're getting more BRI than the players, is pretty pathetic, IMHO.

Now, to make a counter-point to Kessler's point about the owners' proposal essentially "freezing" player movement to tax-paying teams, I disagree. Sure, taxpayers will be at a disadvantage in signing players, but so what? They already outspent other teams. Plus, they still get a $2.5M salary exception to use. They also get the benefit of being able to sign amnesty cuts (not just this offseason) and guys waived via the Stretch Exception, which should create a larger market of waived player free agents who can sign for cheap while still getting paid by their former teams. These are markets that didn't exist in the old CBA. There are enough avenues by which players can join tax-paying teams under the owners' proposal. Those players just have to leave some money on the table. They're grownups. They can make that financial decision for themselves like big boys.


Bottom line:

--I like the owners' latest proposal on the system issues

--I like the union's latest proposal on the BRI split

--I wish both sides would agree on these issues and get a damn deal done already!

 

Explain to me why Derek Fisher out of all these veterans are leading this thing?

 

The problem was that it cascaded out of control, with the Lux tax becomming antiquated, the penalty was not enough for teams like the Mavs and Lakers to just go all in.....

Therefore the owners need to stop the train and put it back on the rails, players can still team up, but teams that are over the cap can no longer do sign and trade deals, which stops the stupid rich teams from
having an advantage....and stops Melo from being able to force himself to NY.

I really don't care if it takes all year, just get a system that allows all teams the ability to compete, this helps the Rockets out more than anything because we have a decent market (Houston) and a great management team led by Morey........we would be in probably the BEST situation possible.

And I am all in favor of that......

The players will still make money at 50% BRI, especially as revenues rise.

Personally, I wish they had a hard cap and franchise tag like the NFL.....

DD

 

More on the ultimatum.

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/33129268

Screw the players! That's my new position. Before, I think I was fairly neutral, though I always felt owners would win, but the player's shallow attempts to win fan sympathy have actually turned me against them. If players really cared about arena workers, they would help them unionize, and they will never mention them again once they get their next deal.

And, of course, DR is talking tough, because he's still earning a paycheck! But the majority of players are not set up like he is, and they are starting to get scared. I hope. But maybe not, maybe even rank and file are hopelessly out of touch.

But, in the end, owners are going to win. I've held that opinion from day one and have seen nothing to change my mind.

 

I guess DD does not understand this thread is only for lockout updates and not his dumb opinion.

 

OOOOPS, I guess not.

DD

 

Easy. The players voted for him.

While I realize there is growing sentiment against union leadership, I honestly believe that Derek Fisher is doing an excellent job as union president. He's negotiating on behalf of various factions of current players, of former players (as to changes to pension and benefits with the league) and of future players.

I'm just hoping that there is enough pressure put on him by the rank and file to put the owners' latest proposal to a vote. Otherwise, he's doing exactly what he's supposed to do, going above and beyond what any prior union president this side of Bob Cousy has ever done before, and against some of the most emboldened owners in recent labor negotiation memory.

Trust me, he's far smarter and more reasonable than 99% of the players. And even if he thinks that this latest proposal from the owners would work for him, he still has a duty to other players not to take it to a vote if he believes in good faith that he can get a better deal for them.