in my best elaine: things just. got. interesting... (astros)

you know...an older, cheaper version (albeit, not as good) of Pierre is Lofton. I think he would make a nice pinch hitter (or situational starter) and he could probably be had cheap. Apparently, the Phils are overloaded with Rowand and Michael in CF so they may not offer Lofton anything.

 

Ok,

I am convinced, let's get Abreau here and then play ball !

I wonder if Clemens told Timmy that he would come back ONLY if the team got another bat?

DD

 

i think he has....and i think he has said it in interviews in not so many words....like when he says "they need to go get a bat and then worry about me"

 

Though it doesn't reflect his career stats, last year Pierre was just an older, more expensive Willy Taveras.

 

I agree that Pierre is a an older more expensive version of Willy; it is not Willy who I'd sit. Lane, Taveras and Pierre with Berkman moving to 1st. Not an eye-popping OF but an improvement while keeping the Ps.

 

First let me say that I'd do Backe/Qualls for Abreu in a heartbeat for all the reasons mentioned already.

I actually think it is possible that the Phils would do the deal (as lopsided as it sounds) because it fills 2 of their glaring needs. They've been talking about getting more starting pitching ever since the AS break last year, and Qualls would give them insurance in the event that the Flash Gordon experiment doesn't work out.

But let me just throw out a couple cautionary points about Abreu. Yeah, his numbers are great. But think about it -- if he's so great, why are the Phillies shopping him around? (Besides the fact that he's a tradeable asset?)

Well, as someone who lives in Philly and has seen a fair amount of Phillie games the past few years (and who listens to sports radio constantly), let me tell you the two knocks on Abreu. (these are purely anecdotal)

1. He's prone to lapsees and to dogging it in the field.

2. He can be very un-clutch. Again, this is anecdotal, but the knock on Abreu is that he wants no part of late-inning pressure situations. It seemed like he meekly walked or struck out at the end of games constantly last year. Clutch hitting pretty much came from Chase Utley and Ryan Howard last year.

Now, having said all that, beggars can't be choosers. We need a bat, Abreu does put up solid numbers, and he's much more interesting to me than the Kevin Menches and Milton Bradleys of the world. I'd take him if we don't have to give up any of our core pieces.

Just wanted everyone to know that there's more to Abreu than the numbers and winning the HR Derby.

 

They have Rowand, Burrell and Michaels (who they are high on) to play the OF. They aren't going to get anything at this point for Michaels. But like u said...he is a tradable asset....and u trade from your strength. They have Burrell, Howard, Utley, Rowand, Lieberthal and Rollins....they can afford to upgrade their pitching using one of their bats. We are a good fit IMO.

 

You don't think the Phillies would rather have Jason Schmidt over Backe/Qualls?

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

I think they would rather have Johan Santana too. Are either being discussed?

 

That reminds me -- rumors are that Burrell is on the block, too. If they move Burrell, they'd obviously keep Abreu.

According the Philly sports radio, a Jason Schmidt/Abreu deal was being discussed.

Also, there was an article in the Philly papers the other day where management insisted that Abreu was not on the block and contacted hia agent to let him know that. I'll try to find it and post it later.

 

If that's the case, Schmidt would be the top of the rotation starter that they said it would take to get Abreu. I'd be surprised if they took our package over Schmidt.

 

Yeah, me too. No idea how legit the rumor is, though.

 

That would be awesome, but doubt it'll happen...

 

Here are a couple clips from Philly papers:

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/special_packages/all_columnists/13320349.htm

On Baseball | Meetings will be busy, if not ground-breaking

By Jim Salisbury
Inquirer Columnist

...

The local nine

The Phillies say they are not shopping Abreu. They don't have to. Every team in baseball already knows that he could be had for pitching help.

It's not that the Phils don't like Abreu. They do. He's available because he could fetch some value as the Phils look to fortify their pitching staff.

The Red Sox covet Abreu and could have some pitching that would interest the Phils. Boston has already floated Clement's name the Phillies' way. A combination of Clement and rightfielder Nixon could interest the Phils.

Another pitcher that could be available and of interest to the Phils is St. Louis righthander Jason Marquis, though that would not be nearly enough return on Abreu.

Several baseball officials have confirmed that the Phils have floated a slew of trade proposals in their quest for pitching, both starting and relief. Something could come to a head in Dallas.


http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/13308226.htm

Phillies: Abreu not being shopped

By PAUL HAGEN
hagenp@phillynews.com

Bobby Abreu is going to the Red Sox for Manny Ramirez!

Unless, of course, the Phillies rightfielder is traded to the Giants for Jason Schmidt, the Cardinals for Jason Marquis or the Orioles for Erik Bedard.

All those rumors can only mean one thing: The winter meetings are right around the corner. The annual conclave formally opens Monday in Dallas; baseball people from the various teams will begin establishing their beachheads beginning Sunday.

Anything can happen in the hothouse atmosphere that is created when a bunch of baseball executives are all together in the same place for 4 days, but it appears unlikely at the moment that the Phillies will be making any headline-grabbing trades involving Abreu, Pat Burrell or any other big names.

For one thing, while the Phillies have few untouchables, the two corner outfielders likely would be bait only if a top-notch starting pitcher could be acquired in return.

"Which I don't see," general manager Pat Gillick said.

As far as Abreu is concerned, assistant general manager Ruben Amaro called agent Peter Greenberg in Venezuela 2 weeks ago and asked him to let the outfielder know that, know matter what Abreu might hear, he wasn't being shopped.

Further, Abreu has a complete no-trade clause (as well as $30.5 million coming over the next 2 years) and the Phillies haven't yet approached him to determine what teams he might be willing to go to.

Amaro would only say yesterday that, as a matter of policy, the team doesn't discuss trade rumors. "And there have been a ton of them," he added. "I'm sure there will be more when we get to Dallas. And when we get there we'll keep our eyes peeled to do whatever we can to improve the club."

Even Chris Leible, who works with Greenberg, can't say for sure what will happen. "We hear the same things everybody else is hearing," he said. "Sometimes where there's smoke, there's fire."

Going in, there's no doubt the Phillies' focus will be on pitching. Gillick has made it clear that he believes it's imperative to add another starter to go along with Jon Lieber, Brett Myers, Cory Lidle and Vicente Padilla. That most likely will be accomplished through a trade, although the early indications are that most teams with No. 1 or No. 2 starters are planning to keep them.

After last night reaching a preliminary agreement with closer Tom Gordon to replace Billy Wagner, the Phillies also have to find a replacement for setup man Ugueth Urbina.

"Realistically, our biggest challenge and the area that's most up in the air is probably pitching," Gillick said. "As far as position players, I'm saying I feel comfortable with them as a group. But, of course, you're never completely satisfied. I think we have a good, solid team on the field."

Ryan Madson is the wild card in the equation. At the moment, he is being penciled into the bullpen in a role similar to the seventh-inning slot he occupied last year. It's possible, depending on what pitchers become available, that he could be a candidate for the bullpen. Righthander Gavin Floyd, the former No. 1 draft choice who struggled both in the majors and at Triple A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre last season, isn't being counted on going into spring training.

Gillick said on the day he was hired that the Phillies, coming off an 88-win season, needed to find a way to get five more victories.

Gillick was asked before last night's deal for Gordon if putting his roster together has been more of an uphill battle than he might have anticipated.

"I don't think so," he said. "It's only a challenge because, at this point, we can't solve problems internally. We have to go out and solve them externally."


I think it's worth noting that I haven't heard the Back/Qualls/Abreu deal mentioned in Philly media once. (Of course, I have been out of town since Friday.)

 

That, and the fact that no one outside of Houston rates Backe or Qualls as high as we do.

 

Well, pretty much looks like its not happening. Lets turn our attention to Lidge for Manny.

 

^ Now that I would do.

 

How do you fit Abreu, Alou, and Bonds all in the same outfield? Weird that SF would do that, given that pitching is their weakness as-is.

 

Dunno -- I'm just the messenger!

But isn't Alou a FA? Or am I making that up?

 

he was last yr.....did he sign a 1 yr deal?