He was also signed again for $15 or so million on another deal that next season to be traded in the first place. Either way Ariza is either a helpful player in that season or he isn’t and is an expiring $15 mil contract. To a contender both have more value then 3 league min contracts; one of whom you’re too cheap to let even play in the league for the full season.
The expiring just has value in that you can maybe get a somewhat better player with more years on their (probably bad) deal or maybe attach assets to get a better player also on an expiring or an even better player with more years on their deal. I don't take issue with saying that having Ariza on that deal would have been better in terms of having options to have a better team, whether with Ariza or using Ariza's salary to possibly upgrade the roster in some other way. But the Oubre deal really was a fluke and getting a (then) solid young wing player with bird rights that had value for Ariza was not something that could have been reasonably expected.
We had an chance to win and win big. Tilman was cheap. Didn’t go all in and sold it to the fans that he was willing to start paying tax the following year because the repeater tax was what he was really trying to push down the road. Extending our window. All BS. Never paid a dime of tax and did everything imaginable to duck it no matter the cost in assets. He tried to sell us on a future that never came because he was too unwilling to take advantage of the opportunities in the present. Never made sense to me then and it sure as hell doesn’t now after we’ve had a chance to see the end result. You have a generational talent. You don’t waste his prime and give yourself the best chance to win now because you’re worried about next year and the year after. Players leave the team, injuries happen, chemistry is always changing. You want to see who ruined the 65 win team? Look no further.
That’s what we are all saying! This was a team that just took a legendarily great team to 7 the year before and the team chose to save $10 mil instead. This in the context of many other cost saving, asset jettisoning moves. The Oubre thing is brought up bc it’s what could (and hey actually did) happen. Yes history could have unfolded differently; still doesn’t change the fact the team chose to surrender assets to save money (not even repeater tax money) after taking an all time team to 7 the year before.
Harden was IN HIS PRIME. He was 30 years old. You SPEND NOW. You dont cheap out then. Cp3 may have not been what he was and that was a problem but our offense was STILL TOP TIER. Defense...defense and rebounding particularly at the wing was our problem ALL YEAR. It was what did us in against the Warriors and we needed those positions filled. We did not. You're right KD did leave, its too bad he didnt SPEND IN TAX AGAIN despite saying he would. Jimmy Butler was FA who rejected us. Actually we got Westbrook(who Tillman wanted) and still didnt spend in the luxury tax yet again. Yea you are locked in with a still 65 win core, that is why you spend. Harden was having maybe the best year of his career, YOU SPEND. There is no ifs and or buts about it. You do not cheap out. It's not soley about Ariza, he could have been used for assets and trade flexibility, you spend an extra 40 million for that, you dont sign multiple minimum players, you dont trade away assets when we needed it the most. Dude, that's not a good example, that's one of the worst decisions OKC has ever made in their franchise. But they did spend in the tax, multiple times, both franchise when they needed to and even when they didnt. Dont give me this Tillman apology story. They are in the their low to mid twenties lol, they have longer than that. Im sorry but you are not going to make this situation the same, you just arent.
Factoring in the tax impacts, Ariza's deal would have ultimately close to like $40 million though right since it would have pushed us into the third threshold? Don't get me wrong, I definitely would prefer Tilman to have paid for it, but I think portraying the decision not to pay it as uniquely cheap in the landscape of NBA owners is not accurate.
The Heat's total tax bills in their history is like $50 million. It was different under the old CBA and when the new CBA rules came into effect Arison got more gun shy when it came to a hypo like this of paying $40 million extra to add a possibly league average player. I can't remember who exactly it was that he balked at signing/trading for because of tax impacts that ticked Lebron off, though. (EDIT: Just looked it up. Amnestied Mike Miller, gave up a first rounder to move Joel Anthony's salary, didn't use MLE. Standard stuff I guess) OKC paid the bill later to try to keep KD in the fold and after that to convince Paul George to stay. I did note superstar leverage as one of the drivers that have caused teams to be more willing to pay a high tax bill under the new CBA.
So? That has nothing to do with anything. Its about spending when you should. I keep saying you didnt HAVE to pay Ariza 15 mil, I keep saying you could have gotten assets for him. I keep saying we made OTHER moves which wasted assets to get under the tax. And its likely league average would have given us a championship. I dont want to hear it. He didnt spend when we needed it the most off a 65 win core. He hampered Morey's moves and literally all moves made that year were cost cutting, I dont want to hear it. Him paying the bill doesnt make TIllman look any better. He's still a cheap liar who destroyed the foundations of our team. I dont want to hear it.
We seem to be arguing past each other about what "should" means. I'm not arguing as an abstract value judgment on what someone is supposed to do. Just saying what most of the other owners have done/would do. Had we resigned Ariza and used the full MLE I think the tax bill would have been higher than any other team has paid under the new CBA besides the Warriors (rich), Cavs (rich plus Lebron using opt outs as leverage) and the Thunder (aforementioned convince stars to stay). With the deals locked in for CP3, Harden and Capela we'd also have been on the way to repeater tax with a massive tax bill and a lot of long term salary on the books already. Most teams haven't operated that way.
This is all foolish. Ownership has dodged the tax every year, including the season after only an injury kept the Rockets from winning the title. Rather than go into the tax and ADD to the team, the owner let both of the Rockets wing defenders leave and replaced them with someone making the minimum. The defense and team suffered. That is inexcusable. There are other examples like the Ryan Anderson trade that were purely motivated by saving ownership money. Not going into the tax when you are rebuilding or not elite makes sense, avoiding the tax when you are elite and have an all time great player is stupid. It Tilman wanted to avoid the tax turn he shouldn’t have lied about it.
I brought up the examples of Arison basically doing the same things as the owner when the Heatles were playing for him. If you're beef is Tilman saying he's willing to pay it, I'm fine with that. If you think he should have used the MLE to upgrade and worried about shedding salary to avoid the repeater if/when that ever happened I'm fine with that too. But I think CF is a bit over the top on this topic. A perfect example is you bringing up not re-signing Luc when he effectively never played in the NBA again after that. And I'm pretty steadfast that I don't think many owners would have matched that contract for Ariza with those tax implications unless a star had their hands tied.
Most teams were not in the situation we were in. Gilbert paid the tax for Lebron even on his last year in Cleveland(despite knowing he was going to the Lakers) with his worst team. And I keep telling you its not only Ariza. You needed to spend more and you didnt, end of story. You should have been spending on the margins when were that close to a title. If you arent rich than dont buy a team. They are all rich and they can all afford it. Our own cheap ass owner is the only one out here buying a team on a loan. I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR IT. He has no defense. There are owners who spend in worse situations.
HE PAID IT THOUGH. He paid it though. Heat have gone into the tax six times and those times were when Lebron was on the team.
Most of it was under the old CBA. Apples to Oranges. I don't think we'd have paid the tax under Tilman for Ariza under the old CBA. I also don't think we'd have made some of the around the margins moves to get under the tax under the old CBA to just miss paying it. But maybe he would have to still get the payments. Les used to do that every year. Their entire tax bills came to $50 million in all those years. Ariza plus using the MLE for one year would have gotten close to that.
That one is fair. But Arison also amnestied Mike Miller lol, that dude was not even a bench player at the time, dude was a third stringer. Lebron lost in the finals if they win its a different story but I'm sure he doenst believe Mike Miller would have helped him win that last chip in Miami. It doesnt matter, the point is that we have teams in worse situations STLL going into the tax. Both Cleveland and the Warriors did so. Paying Ariza 15 million when he could have been used for even marginal assets would have been great as well as using the MLE. Not signing Ariza but still paying the MLE as well as not wasting assets and signing minimum players would have been good. Not signing Ariza, wasting our assets AND not using the MLE is trash. We on 65 games the year before and our problems were very visibly defense and rebounding. We lost to GS by the margins. He said he would spend and he didn't. We publicly wasted assets, Morey made constant moves to cut cost and those were very much not Morey moves. There is nothing you can do to defend this dude. He should have spent, period.
Miller played about 25 minutes a game in the previous finals and shot 11 for 18(!) from 3 in the finals. The next year when Memphis took OKC to 7 he also played about 25 minutes a game in that series and scored 7 a game on 56% TS (48% from 3!).
That's great and all but 7 PPG on barely above average efficiency isnt cutting it when they lost 4-1 in the finals by 20 plus multiple times.
Yeah but this isn't an Economics board and we're not Economics fans. We're basketball and Rockets fans and we watch to win a championship. Everything else is supplementary, the fact that we need to keep hearing billionaire owners being greedy or prudent with their toy is a boring, irrelevant subject whose only importance for fans should be to remind them to tell the owner: I don't care, spend more or F off.
