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Immigration and Jobs

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Northside Storm, Mar 7, 2016.

  1. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    I feel like this election season has been dominated by the undercurrent of immigration and jobs. I'm curious about this. To me, it doesn't seem like recent immigrants cratered the economy in 2008, nor does it seem to me clear that immigrants are holding the job market back.

    Jobs aren't a zero-sum game, and immigrants who consume and build things will create new jobs merely by being in the country. This includes illegal immigrants.

    A strict immigration policy has done Japan wonders during its "lost decades".

    To lay my cards on the table: I'm a work visa holder who moved from Canada to the US. I did all of the paperwork to become a legal immigrant and I'm interested in hearing opposing views out in the open. Most of the anecdotal and systematic data I've seen thus far makes me think America should open its borders more, not close them further.
     
  2. AroundTheWorld

    Supporting Member

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    Now that you are in, the damage is already done. Might as well let more crazies in.
     
  3. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    thanks ATW :)

    I'll make sure to drink a glass of Soylent in your honor ;)
     
  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    It is not the real issue that it used to be, but again the Republican Party is years behind the curve. When I have asked my Republican friends and family what the concern is, they fear a terrorist attack and believe they can cut down drugs entering the country by strengthening the border.

    Also there is a split as SOME people only are concerned with ILLEGAL immigration and others want to prevent particular groups of people from being able to enter the country legally (Muslims, etc.).

    That goes for anyone..... if that is the case, why not just increase family size?

    I don't really have a strong opinion on immigration. I do believe that long term it has been a benefit for the USA and ultimately groups blend in.

    Not really comparable.

    There isn't really a "right" answer. It is a personal preference and a quality of life issue. People like to look fondly and act as if immigration in the past wasn't as big a burden. The reality is that many people were not happy with past waves of immigration, for a variety of reasons. Also something else to consider, people now can look back and say the wave of immigration from Italy, Ireland, China, Vietnam and other places were a positive. However there were people living through it that did not like it.

    The United States is a very opinionated place, and couple that with people fearing any change and you have issues.
     
  5. Kim

    Kim Contributing Member

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    From a practical perspective, more immigration might be a necessity in growing the economy since American citizens aren't baby-making like we used to.
     
  6. okierock

    okierock Contributing Member

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    Illegal is Illegal and should be punished. The problem we have is that the system we have to make immigration legal is a joke.

    Give people a path to immigrate that makes sense and they will take it.
     
  7. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    due to failing american schools and university system we lack qualified workers and thus need immigrants who are paid less than a qualified american counterpart would be so it stagnates middle class wages. it's a vicious cycle.
     
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Virtuous

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    The people eliminating most American jobs these days are not ones coming from Mexico or a Shenzen sweatshop, but the ones who are automating them (who, by contrast, are growing fabulously rich because of it)...and it's questionable if the attendant benefits are really helping productivity as past technological revolutions have.
     
  9. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    It seems to me "illegal" immigrants are only going to take the labor jobs that Americans won't do... mainly because they don't pay enough for the work they require. Any real job takes some documentation.
     
  10. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Sounds like the wages need to be increased. Importing people who are willing to work below market value due to legal status is a poor choice.
     
  11. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  12. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    You try telling the folks at the grocery store to pay more because...yell just because.
     
  13. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    onoes the strawberry industry will never recover. Most crap people actually buy won't change in price at all. Ethanol gas increased staple food prices more than getting rid of illegals would.

    Also the reason is cheaper food isn't an excuse for slavery. If you need migrant workers they should be paid what you can hire americans for.
     
  14. SamFisher

    SamFisher Virtuous

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    It's not just low pay, the other advantage that immigrants bring the labor market is willingess to relocate that Americans are increasingly less likely to do - this brings some efficiency gains to the labor force that you arent' going to replicate absent a sea change in the way Americans live, own homes, etc.
     
  15. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Northside - first off, I'm frightened that you have established roots in our country, as I would hope there would be an intelligence test or at a minimum a sanity test for entrance. But nevertheless, welcome, I guess.

    I'm a huge proponent of immigration. But you have to segment immigration. I would greatly expand the H1B program, as those folks add significantly to our economy. As well as whatever needs to be done to keep all the foreign students who study at American universities here after they're done with school. Those are high quality additions to our country.

    Regarding the illegals coming across our Southern border, we need some kind of legal way for them to come in and work. Their presence drives down wages for the low-skilled American workers, yet provides for cheaper goods and services for our population. There's a question of how much they extract from the system due to the cost of their healthcare, schooling, etc that they get for free. But yes we need a source of immigration to prevent the problem that Japan and Europe have of declining population growth.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Thanks for the tentative welcome :)P) and your thoughts, I thought they were very interesting. I'll look to address the substance (happy that there is quite a bit) in this thread soon but wanted to say thanks first :)
     
  17. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    Japan's economy is just fine despite a stagnant overall population and a declining working age population.
    China went from $2 trillion GDP in 2000 to $10 trillion GDP in 2015 with very little immigration to speak of.

    Is trade desirable? Yes.
    Is unrestricted trade desirable? No.

    There have to be rules. We have rules that regulate trade, and we have rules that regulate immigration. The US has the most open borders in the world as far as immigration and citizenship go - regardless of economic status (i.e. developed, etc).
     
  18. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    Oh I agree but most people will not put their money where their mouth is.
     
  19. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    You can count on the day the boarders will be patrolled by the drones, possibly fully automated, it is coming and no one can stop it.
     
  20. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    A lot of businesses would go out of business without them.

    They pay more in taxes than they take out in benefits - mainly because outside of education, they are ineligible for benefits. I think they pay about $12 billion in taxes though.
     

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