You're right, rimbaud. We should let them all do whatever it is that they feel like doing. If they want to take over California, fine. If they want to seize a nuclear weapons armory in order to end abortion, fine. If they want to blow up a ski lift with people on it, fine. No problem. We should just let them do whatever they feel like doing... While we're at it, let's just bring the boys back from Afghanistan. I mean, how much harm could Al Qaeda really do? You seem to forget that the Fed's role is to protect the nation's citizens from enemies - both foreign and domestic... Now, if you're just hinting that it would be disastrous for the Fed to preoccupy itself by going after all of them at the same time, I concur. But when did I say that was the way to do it? Think linear, not parallel.
tree, I was just trying to be funny. I thought you would have liked my extremism. Sorry to have caused you to waste a post.
In many of your posts, you appear to overestimate everyone else's intelligence with regards to their ability to detect your wit and sarcasm. Smilies fix that problem real good. another wasted post
To all: Thanks so much for all the support and well wishes. I will start a thread before I leave to say goodbye for awhile, and also to tell everyone what, exactly I'll be doing. .....and of course I'll miss my Princess most of all.
I am an Australian. My wife is Thai born...and she has spent a fair amount of the past two years working as a Pharmacist for a Thai Hospital. Thus...we have spent quite a bit of time living in both countries. Australia is very similar to the USA, in that we seem to have a nationalistic right wing mood just below the surface...that emerges whenever anything 'big' occurs. It's extremely disappointing and most of it simply the rhetoric of morons. Conversely, whenever we go to Thailand...I am always treated incredibly well by the people there. Always friendly, always kind hearts. They have less than us here...but they are always much more willing to share it. They are genuinely happy to see that western people want to come to their country. They love the fact that many westerners nowadays live there...and are proud that many westerners love the place. For them, that's a source of immense pride. So what if some papers are now in English...so what if cable TV means many shows are in English. You'd never hear them voice a second of concern...and yet someone here will wonder why do we need a Chinese / Thai / Croatian / Lebanese daily newspaper etc etc... Why worry about it? Geez...it aint the end of the world if a person from another country wants to embrace some of their own interests and culture. Even in Asia...quite a significant amount of western people are starting to live there. Societies of multiple cultures is not unique to western countries only...and certainly not just the USA (although some of you are so insular I am sure you think it is) Enjoy multiculturalism for the opportunities it presents...and quit whining about the negatives...and maybe some of you will actually broaden your horizons.
I am not an American, so perhaps I can bring a bit of a different perspective to this. I agree with anyone who makes a basic statement that if I come as an immigrant to a country, I have to adapt to the country's rules and customs, and not vice versa. I also agree with anyone who states that I should not come to a country if I have a hostile attitude towards that country. I think that is why Asians have a quite successful track record in the United States - because the majority of them is willing to adapt. I think the percentage of Arabs coming to the United States who are NOT willing to adapt is higher than the percentage of other ethnic groups. I am not speaking about all Arabs here and it is not only Arabs who are not willing to adapt. Asian, African, Mexican, German, whatever - if you come to another country, you should at least be willing to make an effort to adapt to a certain extent. I just think that it is self-explanatory that if I come to the USA (as I did for a year in 1995/1996), I will try to blend in. That does not mean I have to give up my whole cultural background. That is part of what makes the USA a great country - the diversity of having a lot of different cultures mixed together. However, it means that I should not try to impose my culture upon the majority and I should not be hostile towards the country that was willing to accept me as an immigrant. If that is all the writer of the article is trying to say, I agree.
Don't worry 'bout that man. We'll get a line to each other so we can work our American ass-whoopin' together. I'll be the all-star hall-of-fame point guard and you'll be the all-star hall-of fame forward. We're still racing for stars, you know.
Just to add my 2: I, for one, don't think you are a bigot for thinking that way. But I have learned that, for some reason, many white Americans don't understand how fellow Americans of different ethnic backgrounds feel a close relation with that ethnicity, which is what it seems you are having trouble with. It's easy to say 'why can't we just all forget our background and just call ourselves Americans' when you are part of the majority. Ethnic groups are proud to be Americans as well....but they are also proud of their history and the identity it gives them. When one side feels that way and the other side doesn't, it seems to cause a lot of the tensions. So the question becomes....is it better for those ethnic groups to lose that sense of pride? Or better for the other groups to recognize that they feel it?
It is the mix of cultures that makes America the greatest nation in the world outside of Australia. If this country was made up of only white Christians, then there is no way I could live here. Give me variety any day. The author of that e-mail is an incompetent prick. America is a place of freedom. Freedom of religion and freedom of thought. The mix of cultures, religions, and ideas is America. There is no single culture, and hopefully there never will be. Think of it as the United Cultures of America.
Yes we are a mix, and we should have to learn more then one language (All Europeans do). However, anyone immigrating to this country should learn to speak English. If I moved to France, I would learn French, same for any other country. We spend far too much time and money trying to make it easy to adapt, we have better places to spend our money. DD
ScreamingRocketJet, Maybe the reason the US and Australia are similar in attitude now is because both were settled by a large amount of convicts in the beginning. Convicts = anti-immigration? Disclaimer #23476: This was a joke.
Treeman, you obviously didn't take the time to read my links, or if you did you, were VERY selective in interpreting the sections you want. As Sister Helen Prejeen (sp.?) of Dead Man Walking fame said, you can use the bible to support anything you want--like you can try to paint all Mecha groups in universities all across the country from quoting from bylaws that may or may not be archaic for the groups that are actually active and large. To me, for you to come off like you do is like me saying George Bush stands for all the things that radical right campus stands for (Bob Jones?) because he went out of his way to appear there. That would be a mischaracterization. I have never been a member of Mecha, and my experience in knowing their bylaws is limited to me going to those cites I found for this thread, but I know others who have been and currently active in it. The central PREMISE and ACTIVITIES of all the people I have actually met who identify with Mechas is building up their communities. I have never heard any expression of hate towards me or other groups more generall (be it Whites/Asians/Others). Now you want to take 1% who wants to be a Che revolutionary, take some bylaw quotes some of them wrote, and paint the whole like you want, go ahead. But I ain't letting you post about that w/o another view. I prefer to judge people and groups by their actions, not some pledge or bylaw someone dug up. Also, the America you think Mecha is really after isn't the America I want either. However, I am far more concerned about an out of control "American Culturalists" or "Christian America" type movement--because they try to appeal to a wider in number and more powerful contigency. California I think soon will have no dominant group (enough split between Whites, Latinos, Asian sub-groups and African Americans). I have little fear it will get too radical because of the more equal demographics no matter what a fringe group does--even if it is the most radical Mecha lead group that you fear it becomes (if they did get that radical they would be isolated from their own Mexican American community anyway--if you know anything about that community you would no it is not generally into political extremism). Now in Montana or Wisconson or Arkansas or West Virgina, there you could get a fringe group exerting some real power because of demographics or a dominant political or religious faction. Why don't you spend your time worry about those groups that are a much greater threat.
Desert Scar: Rubbish. I read your links. Did you? They do not support your argument, they support mine. I'd advise anyone who doesn't believe me to read your links and make their own judgment... Did you even bother to read my links? Did you even read beyond the first few sentences in either of my posts? These are not just some obscure chapter's bylaws; El Plan Espiritual de Aztlán is the national MEChA guideline for action and philosophy. If MEChA National is "archaic", then... Since you apparently didn't actually read any of it, here are a few quotes from it that I highlighted: Now, again, this is the national philosophy and plan of action for MEChA chapters across the US - not just a 1% minority of "Che revolutionaries". Get it - National. Exactly what part of this plan is unclear to you? In addition, I also said that I would like to go after right wing groups like the Christian Identity and Aryan Nation (and any other right wing militia group you can mention. Now, I don't know what you mean by "American Culturalists"; if you mean right wing groups like these, then fine. But if you're implying that you'd like to go after any group that doesn't want to see American Culture (and there is such a thing, despite what some sociology or anthropology profs might tell you) be replaced - and I don't mean altered, that is natural and I have no problem with that - then I'll be standing right in your way... Why don't you read my links and posts from now on before you comment on them?
OK, I just read all of the links both of you guys posted to try to help. I got the impression from Desert Scar's links that they are a self empowerment/pride group that wants to improve education in their communities and increase their political power in their communities. They also want to "resist Eurocentricism" basically. Thier manifesto they call El Plan de Santa Barbara. Tree, I know nothing of these guys but just from those two links, I get an impression similar to Scar's, except, I think he is sugar-coating their separationist attitude. However, I infer that it is not as much separating from the US as from having their own party within the system that will represent "la raza" more. From your El Plan Espiritual de Aztlán link, they do come accross as similar but more militant and certainly more separationist. My questions would be: are these two "plans" the same? Why is the more whacko one on an Angelfire site? If I ever get my computer set back up, I might look into it more to see if I can find anything credible...until then I just wanted to give a view that was outside of your personal argument...is it possible for you both to be right?
rimbaud: They are a "self-empowerment/pride" group, but they are so much more as well... Read a few of these links. Their goal is not to simply educate their people and enrich their community, it is to fight assimilation, and to ultimately retake the SW (Aztlan). Their own writings leave absolutely no doubt about that. MEChA National Webpages: http://www.panam.edu/orgs/mecha/nat.html A little on the history of MEChA and its beginnings: http://www.utexas.edu/ftp/student/mecha/research.html MEChA Constitution: http://www.umich.edu/~mechaum/Natconst.html El Plan Espiritual de Aztlán (again) http://www.panam.edu/orgs/mecha/aztlan.html El Plan de Santa Barbera: http://www.panam.edu/orgs/mecha/st_barbara.html If you’ve got lots of time: http://www.jsri.msu.edu/RandS/research/ops/oc07.html
I heard Pat Buchanan (treeman's favorite) say in an interview that they estimate that there are some 4,000 of these MECha groups in the US.