I think it sucks that you have to deal with that. I wouldnt know and sure as hell couldnt relate and I dont pretend too. I have friends of all nationalities and races. I grew up in a racist family and didnt understand why it was that way. I broke that cycle and are teaching my children differently. I think that I get most upset with the fact that everybody cannot just be the same. Even the people that want equality the most seem to segregate themselves and maybe because I have never experienced that type of persecusion that I cant understand it. All I see is that people are continuing something that they do not want to see continue. If I met you on the street I would treat you any different than if I met a white dude on the street. I truly believe that until everyone starts to treat others and themselves the same, we will always have division. And that truly sucks.
I think I could count the number of actual conservatives on one hand. Moderates, maybe two hands and a foot. Liberals... For whatever reason, it would take more body parts than I care to gander at.
I agree with you MB on the label issue. It is and causes big problems and issues with racism. The problem is how do we get away from labels, if we can at all?
It is incredibly simple but not all simple things are easy. The Golden Rule. That would fix everything.
It appears as though racism and language is attempted to be linked together. The ultimate question lies in what is better for this country. A land with multiple languages, or one common language? Race card is way to overplayed in this thread. Personally I think its tremendously important that we all communicate wiith one another, without the task of learning 20 different languages. Otherwise smaller minority groups then become isolated from the majority, thus their chance for success is challenged. Its not racist to have one standard language. Now maybe you think my link is unfounded, okay, thats fine... it just sounds that way.
"Black" is still considered an acceptable term but is usually considered an informal term. Last year, I had the opportunity to meet quite a few black community leaders (not politicians, though I did meet them - mostly activists) and I actually asked one older gentleman about this and he explained where most of it came from. I asked what he preferred to be called and he said, "I prefer John, myself" - his name.
I disagree. I do believe the liberals are more outspoken. Jeff said the term "African-American" came from "Afro-American". Is "Afro" referring to their hair (maybe a dumb question), and if so, I would find that pretty offensive before being called "Negro". Most black people refer to themselves as "black", not "african-american" Stop and think about it ... you are giving a HERETIGE description when you are trying to give a PHYSICAL description.
I don't think anyone is "playing" a race card. I think (like most threads on this site) there are multiple discussions in this thread dealing with language, culture, identity, race and nationality. In some instances these issues are being conflated. But please don't belittle some portions of the discussion as being card games. Addressing your point, I think a single language is best for this country. Their are certain things that must exist inorder to have a "great nation." A unifying language is one of these. I remember a book called Imagined Communities by Benedict Anderson that does a great job of exploring these issues of nationalism and citizenship.
Exactly. I think that all the new labels are mostly substitutes for racial slurs. And like the slurs, they tend to do nothing more than mindlessly group people together and reinforce old divisions.
In general, Having lived in Paris, I can attest to the fact that there are vibrant American and other english-speaking communities in the city. There are american churches, libraries, stores, newspapers, etc...add to that all of the British and ENglish can be used just about anywhere. Additionally, there are strong Korean, middle-eastern, african, and japanese communities that I know about...again,, all with their own languages, signs, etc. master, "Oriental" has never been accepted by asians, so it is not something that has changed. It has always been associated with imperialism. There is no point to this, just explaining. Someone mentioned american blacks being nothing like africans. This is both true and untrue. First, there are many cultural traditions that still exist that are traced back to africa. Anyone who has spent time in the South and has seen "shotgun houses/shacks" have seen examples of the african architectural aesthetic. The islands off of SC and Georgia are home to the gullah people...in the late 80's, many went on a trip to sierra leone and found that the language for which they had been ridiculed was near identical to the common language spoken in sierra leone...as well as their basketmaking traditions and songs. Anyway, the islands are more unique because they are more closed off...additionally, they are unique in that large groups of people from Africa were sent to the same general location in the US (usually they were separated and mixed to thwart community interaction, etc) because the climates and geography were similar and the Africans could bring their rice-growing technology to the Southern coast. rm95, It seems that usually when someone starts an anonymous poll, the liberal/conservative republican/democrat votes are near identical.
From what I understand, "Afro-American" was supposed to be short for "African-American" but, like you said, too many people associated it with the hair style. You are right that most people refer to themselves as black. It is considered the informal description.
We do see things differently, and that's interesting. Clearly there are a lot of meanings buried in these word patterns/linguistic signs. Rimbaud, if you're lurking, would you care to do a semiotic analysis? Incidentally, as a Canadian, I felt attacked by 09/11/01 too. I've been there. Many Canadians work and travel there, and as co-habitants of North America, we do share a certain kinship (while still maintaining distinct differences! ) so I felt personally attacked too. As for the race designation, the differentiation you make is interesting. I was born and raised on the Canadian prairie, and the only thing I know about black/white American race issues is what I read in the media and see on TV (and from one nervous trip through Harlem!) At first glance those two terms are essentially synonymous to me, but I'm sure there are layers of meaning and history there that I'm not sensitive to.
I've been reading the thread with a lot of interest, and I thought I'd say something. I have to say that I partly agree with the email, but I also disagree with it to some extent. I am an immigrant to this country, came here in 1990 from Kuwait. I am now a citizen of the US, and most definitely like to be identified as an American, not as an Arab-American, not as Kuwaiti-American, American suits me just fine. My heritage is and always will be a part of me, but for me to make it a constant reminder by labeling myself something other than American is stupid, and the same goes for somebody else doing it to me. Somebody mentioned 'individualism', and to a degree, it is all well and good, but I think it has gotten to a stage where it fragments more than anything else. Everybody finds their comfort zone and sticks to it, people hardly venture outside their group (for whatever reason) and at that point, what else can you do but label someone? Language is definitely a factor as to why people tend not to mingle with other 'groups'. But it shouldn't be an excuse ... if you have the means, learn English. I was fortunate that English is pretty much a first language for me, but I have friends whose parents didn't know a word of English, who actually learned from their children to function properly here. It almost feels like people are more proud of their backgrounds than who they are now. Somebody else mentioned 'We celebrate July 4th, if you want to celebrate May 5th, goto Mexico" or something to that effect. Couldn't agree more! I never saw anyone celebrate anything but February 25th back in Kuwait, same when I spent time in Saudi, India and Pakistan. You celebrate the Independence Day of where you are ... why do you feel the need to keep bringing up your background. It doesn't matter ... you're in America, you're an American ... THIS is you now, not you a minimum of 5 years ago. I've been to a few 'Pakistan Days' recently (mostly to get hooked up ), but it is pretty pathetic ... you'll see all this anti-American media being distributed, blah blah ... if Pakistan truly is such a wonderful country (maybe it is, I should say 'truly is a better country), how about you trying to go back, after all, being in America is such a hassle, poor souls! Point being, the only reason folks are able to do this is cause of all the freedoms that this country provides. I'll be damned if I ever found any anti-state media in most of the countries in the world ... you don't have this right to free speech. Which sometimes leads me to think that maybe its all these rights that are causing problems ... hmmm! Last point (really!!) ... the part that I disagreed was the whole 'In God We Trust' section ... I think most everyone covered the problem I had with it too so I won't re-hash it. DISCLAIMER: It is about 3:30 here, so if this sounds like a rant (or doesn't make sense otherwise), I am sorry ... I am down with a 104 fever, and can't get myself to sleep!!! --Rockit
That's another thing I've never understood. What's wrong with celebrating Cinco de Mayo? As long as they aren't being "anti-American" while doing so, what's the harm? Are you saying if you moved to another country, you'd completely forget about the 4th of July?
If I moved to another country and became a citizen, I wouldnt go around celebrating July 4th. It wouldnt be my independence day anymore. I dont know why I keep using France as an example but since I have I will continue the trend. If I moved to France and became a citizen I wouldnt be an American-French. I would be just French. I wouldnt celebrate July 4th anymore because I obviously wanted to be French enough to where I became a citizen. I would remember, hey, I had some great times on July 4th, but thats about it. It wouldnt have the same meaning anymore. My French homies probably wouldnt be too happy that I was celebrating July 4th if I did. They would probably tell me that if I liked celebrating July 4th so much and if I thought that America was so great, how about I go back and celebrate it there. That is exactly how I feel about Cinco de Mayo and all of that other crap.
I doubt everyone in France is as intolerant as you. I'm sure most of them couldn't give a **** if you celebrated the 4th of July as long as you weren't being disrespectful to France.
Yeah right, especially since the French have always been known to be so tolerant of Americans. Go to Paris and try to do anything and not do it their way and see how you get treated. If you dont say hello when you go in a bakery or at least attempt to speak French they crap all over you. If they know that you are making an effort to be like them, they are incredibly hospitable. Celebrating the 4th of July would not go over as well as you think. And why is it that I am intolerant because I think that American should celebrate our independence versus another countries. Its basically saying, I like where I came from enough to blatantly go out and show my fellow country men and women that my "other" country is great. I got an idea Rocketman95, how about you go serve your country for 4 years and see how you feel about a bunch of people waving some other flag and making a spectacle out of how great Mexico is. When people serve in the military, it is just that serving. You arent doing it for the money, you are doing it because you want to give back. You do it because you love your country and you want it to remain the best in the world. Remember the ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. More people should heed those words and less people should disrespect my country by going around and telling me how great their "other" country is. See also Rockit's post. That is how an American is.
