Princess, why do you think business pay illegals in cash, it is so they can avoid taxes and pay a lower than marginal rate for the work done. It is because of undocumented workers that your food (fruits, vegetables, poultry) costs half as much as it ordinarily would and your housing in the SW is about at least 40% less. If Americans are willing to give up these things as part of closing the national borders then there could be a debate, but usually we like things cheap. The financial benefits us legals get from illegals far outweigh our costs associate with them being here (all the benefits you seem to speak to)--every serious economic analysis of the situation recognizes this. Now you can be like RR and argue despite the economic benefits to most Americans that illegal immigrants bring they are bad for our country (cultural homogeneity argument, or say it breeds lawlessness, etc,), but that is the tack you have to take against illegal immigration, not an economic one (unless you are a unskilled worker or skilled worker and it personally works against you). Also, yes undocumented and other uninsured persons are a huge problem for hospitals with high levels of emergency care service. That is a very complex issue worthy of its own debate far too lengthy to get into here. No, illegals do NOT get welfare nor take part in other parts of the safety net (social security for retirees or disabled persons). That is a complete misstatement of the availability of the safety net for illegals in America. You seem to thoughtfully realize Texas has strong ties to Mexico because of historical and geographic reasons. Of course all Texans should learn English but why shouldn't Spanish then be the next language emphasized in school? It certainly would have the most economic benefits for Texans. IMO, in America we seem so bent on trying to hide or blur cultures that it causes more problems then it helps (I think much of it is well meaning, it just doesn't work). Canada, Costa Rica, Western Europe, etc., it is no big deal to be a citizen yet recognize some kind of ethnic heritage as well. To me us Americans are more stuck on cultural issues by trying so hard to ignore them. Us Americans so value diversity within cultures (this is what individuality is) what is the big deal about diversity in cultures. Being exposed to more ideas, more philosophies, more values, more art, more food, and most importantly, more ways to live your life--then choosing what you think is the best of each, nothing is more American than that.
Excuse me for not being up to date on what people should be called. I meant no disrespect by using the term oriental. And that is what I am tired of, everyone wants to be called one thing until that becomes not PC enough and then they want to be called something else. African Americans (hopefully that is PC enough for everyone) used to be called negros then coloreds then blacks then african americans and I am sure that soon enough there will be a new term that will be even more pc than that. It is a crock of ****. You are a person. You are an american. Isnt that enough? Does it matter if you are a male or female, gay or straight, black, white, whatever? Cant we just be Americans and proud of that? Cant there be enough tolerance with others that if they say oriental and they mean absolutely nothing by it you cant get all bent out of shape?
Desert Scar -- I'm hearing you loud and clear. I personally have no problem with culture. It's something we all have in common! But y'know, that's a two-edged sword! Culture often separates us. How many people of African descent here really believed that OJ was innocent at first? I know I did! Culture can tell one what and how to think. "Don't marry outside of your family!" "Go to church every Sunday.", "Hey, you swept me with that broom! *spit!*". It's insane. I'm really advocating non-separation because we eliminate the need for so-called "tolerance". We're all the same basically and I treat you with love and respect no matter who you are. I, of course, expect the same.
Desert, the problem with illegal immigrants is that they are ILLEGAL! I understand the benefits they bring, but I am more concerned with the LAW. If immigrants want to come in and have a job, family and life, then why not do it legally? They could make the same contribution to society they do, only they could be legal. You seemed to be avoiding this part of the question.
MB, my last paragraph get's to this issue. We value recognizing diversity in persons (we call this individualism), what is the big problem with diversity in groups. It happens, it is there, it is no big deal that groups can overall be different from one another. As far as why people called by a group name could be offensive, maybe another can explain it easier and better, I'll take a stab though. Let's say you are a 40 year old in an office and someone says "come here boy, help me out" or "come here little sweetie, help me out", it might bother you. Intent (maybe the person means it endearingly) or not, words have been used to belittle peoples and groups, and if you don't go to the effort to use the terms people want to be called by or given them proper respect, well, I would not call that trully supporting diversity.
African Americans were called "******s" as well as "Negro." The "African American" label is the first label African Americans chose for themselves in an attempt to overcome the linguistic baggage of slavery and segregation. I am an American. And that is enough for me. And it is enough for most people who look like me. But it apparently is not enough for the bigots of this world who have the problem with people looking different and need to label people. Tolerance is a two way street. I have no problem with people asserting and celebrating their diversity. I have a problem with people who think anything different from themselves is a threat.
Fascism and xenophobia are not pretty. People can be so g.d. parochial. Study some culture, some history, some foreign languages....get a view of the world other than that provided from your seat at the bowling alley bar. It's great to love your country. But when you begin a sentence, "I'm not a racist, but..." or "I'm not against immigration, but..." then you are probably about to contradict yourself. "I'm not against immigrants, as long as they're white, God-fearing Christian folk who learn to talk American real good, real quick, and who act American, too." Blarf!
RR: <B>Where do you stand on things such as quotas which are racially designed?</B> Racial quotas are already illegal, and there's no movement to make them legal. <B>How about diluting our resources by making us function as a bilingual national?</B> The economic benefits of all this bilingual stuff are larger than the costs. There's really no net use of resources in it. <B>Shouldn't our new citizens be learning English?</B> They are, if the schools are up to par. Education is an entirely separate issue, though.
I understand that, but how am I supposed to know when that changes? how am I to know what is offensive and what isnt? What is offensive to one person may not be to another and vice versa? It is a never ending cycle. It isnt like they have a http://www.policitallycorrectterms.com. Or I hope they dont, they just might, if so I will start my day by reading up on my terms so that I dont offend anyone anymore. If an old man calls me "son", I dont get pissed because I know he doesnt mean anything by it. I dont like it. It irritates me. I am not his son but it is a term that he knows and it isnt meant to be offensive. I used the term orientals, I didnt mean anything by it. Why cant Asian people be tolerant of my ignorance just like I am of others?
No I never avoided that question, I didn't know you asked me about it. You went on about how illegals use valuble resources and cost the public (us) money without benefiting us legals, and that is plainly false. You didn't sound like you understand the benefits they bring in your first post, if I misread you post I apoligize, if you took something from my post to think about your position more fully I am glad. Princess, your idea of having immigrants come here and work legally is a great idea. If we had some kind of system where for each job available a worker would come here legally that would be a good start. The devil is in the details (do you want them to stay and be citiziens, be temporary and go back home after the job, what do you do about their families, etc) but there has to be a start somewhere.
Who came up with the term coloreds? negros? blacks? I dont know? At a point in time, none of those were thougt to be offensive. Are all african americans from africa? I highly doubt it. I have a friend that was born in Jamaica who thinks that term is bull****. He is an American now and doesnt understand what all of the fuss is about. He is an American and that is it. Am I the only one that gets this? Do you think I am a bigot because I think all Americans should be just that, Americans? I think that the labels are one of the biggest problems with racism today.
Desert, it wasn't a direct question to you, but it seemed to me that you were being so critical of my entry but avoided certain other parts. I never mentioned the benefits, but that's because it wasn't part of my point. There is always a good and bad to everything. I do think it's unfair for any people to expect another country to adapt to them. Many people have cited Europe for putting up signs in English, but they do that for tourist reasons mostly and they have signs in many other languages as well. America is diverse and always will be. The whole world is becoming more diverse. I have no problem with Americans learning second or third languages. I'm minoring in French! I think Americans need to be more conscious of other peoples and cultures and stop being so stuck on ourselves. But I think some immigrants take advantage of the US as the "Land of the Free." Let people come here legally and adapt to our society. I would do the same in any counrty I wanted to live in. Adapting to another society does not have to mean that you lose your heritage. Again, does anyone know how easy it is to immigrate to America, legally or illegally?
Here is my beef with multiculturalism in its current state: It seems as though a lot of special interest groups (a.k.a. Satan's Minions) have absolutely zero interest in assimilating their culture here in America, and they have absolutely zero interest in allowing any of the established American culture into their little niche. Seems to me that a lot of them would rather establish their own little country within our own, taking all of the benefits of being an American without contributing anything in return. Personally, I love multiculturalism, as long as they are willing to accept my own in this country. If I were to relocate to another country, of course I would take a lot of America and a lot of Texas with me, but I would also respect the culture of the country I was in by not forcing my own upon anyone else. My immediate thought would be: I can't expect these people to know, understand, and accommodate me without me doing so first. Don't be too fast there. My uncle lived in Poland for awhile in the early '90s for an American engineering firm. He lived there for about 4 years with his American wife, in a duplex with another American family. They lived with Americans and worked with Americans and English-speaking Poles. But nothing was quite so easy as you describe: they had a tv they couldn't watch, and in post-communist Poland English proficiency was so scarce that they really couldn't go out to a bar, to a restaurant, or to the grocery store without in being a minor ordeal. So while technically you're right, life was very difficult for them despite living and working with Americans and English speakers, and making a lot of money, too.
You are correct. Not all African Americans are from Africa. It is a term that was first brought to the forefront in the 80's. The terms "colored" and "negro" were indeed always considered offensive by most black people. There was a saying blacks had in the 60's, "I'm not colored. I'm just the way God made me." "Black" arose out of the concept of black power and came to define the general black person in America. The term was changed because many felt it was not representative of the widely varying ethnicities among the black community AND because it defined them as a skin color - something they wanted to avoid. So, the term African American (originally Afro American) came about and it has stuck.
Not that anyone will actually bother reading any of these, but… : Mexicans remittances may reach 9.8 billion dollars in 2001 http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/9945/NEWS/9pt8billion010605.html Reconquista http://www.americanpatrol.org/RECONQUISTA/LondonTimesRecon000709.html Myths and Half Truths http://www.americanpatrol.org/REFERENCE/mythshalftruths000117.html Census Report spurs call for new Prop. 187 http://www.pe.com/localnews/stories/10024125_PE_NEWS_nimmigr24.html American Civil Rights Institute’s website (lotsa good stuff here) http://www.acri.org/ Enjoy this pointless, futile, and eminently interesting and enjoyable thread.
It isnt that I am not tolerant, I think it more has to do with the fact that I find politically correctness to be a big pile of crap. It is a by-product of ultra liberals like yourself.
I dont know about any of that I wasnt alive to experience it. If many people do not feel that the term blacks is representative of themselves, why do you continue to use it all through your posts?
Just because a person has the same color skin doesn't mean they hae the same experiences. Most black people from other countries don't see eye to eye with black people from this country ( in some African countries it is not uncommon to nick name an American black "white boy"). Carribeans in particular have a very different view of America's race problem than those blacks who live here. Carribeans have a different cultural heritage. Of course they wouldn't see things the same way. Don't get caught up in the terms themselves. Ultimately, they are silly. It is the reality that people want the power to name themselves that must be understood. That is what being an American is all about. The power of self determination--choosing your own identity. No, I don't think you are a biggot because you think Americans should be Americans, period. I think the same thing. But what I (and you) want and reality are two seperate things. Because I am black, everyday I deal with people for whom me being an American isn't enough. THEY have to have the label. THEY have to distinguish me. Whether I am shopping, attending a public event, out for dinner, meeting a potential client (who obviously wasn't told what I would look like), I encounter different treatment. That treatment ranges from having a clerk refuse to show me the expensive watches because I "surely couldn't afford it" to overhearing some guy tell his girl how he doesn't like it when "******s" come to his neighborhood movie theatre. A couple of years ago, a white friend of mine and I went to go pick up a computer, scanner and monitor I ordered from an LA area computer store. My friend, who knew little about computers, was enraged when upon getting the merchandise, the clerk turned to him and said "You are gonna show him how to set this all up aren't you?" My friend lit into the clerk then turned to me and said "Aren't you angry about this?!" I replied "Yeah, but I go through this everyday and today I am just don't feel like fighting with this moron over this." If we want people to just be Americans, then we should treat like they are Americans. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. So don't blame people for overcelebrating their differences as a means of defending themselves from unfair treatment and persecution.
