Immigrants, not Americans, need to Adapt

Grizzled - whosaidzat? I didn't!

I was attempting to reiterate a point voiced earlier, that labels contribute to the problems we have with race in this country. We can't possibly hope to have a real unity and peace as a nation until we can discard labels based on race, sex, religion, political affiliation, etc.

 

find me something that says English is the official language of the United States.

Is "oriental" an accpetable term for Asians to you?

 

RR: On bilingual education, I have parents who were teachers for a combined 70 years. My mom contracts with HISD (Houston ISD) now as the head of their Drug Free Schools program but both have been in schools, my mom in two predominantly Hispanic schools as well as a counseling coordinator over all of them.

They both believe that bilingual education is an absolute necessity for children because many of them do not speak English when they enter school. If they didn't have ESL (English as a Second Language) classes, they would never learn it.

The fact is that they go home to families who do not speak any English and have limited education and a lack of funds to take classes necessary to become good English speakers. Think of really poor people with poor English grammar and imagine them attempting to learn another language - they barely know their own!

Many of these kids become the first English speaker in the family and wind up translating oftentimes for their parents. For them, English really is a second language because they are at home with family members who treat it that we. We cannot change that and ignoring it makes the problem worse.

It isn't like if we stopped teaching English to immigrants from Mexico that they would stop coming or that they wouldn't be able to get work.

Also, language is an interesting thing, culturally, anyway. The English language is one of the most difficult to learn because it is a b*stard form of language. It has borrowed from more language than any other - Latin, Old English, German, etc, etc.

In addition, we invent words and slang terms at a rapid rate due to the advent of technology. As a result, our language becomes more dense and more difficult. For that matter, our language isn't even national - it's regional. Sure, we all speak English, but chances are there are plenty of terms that we use in Texas that would make someone from NYC go, "Huh?"

I'm not against people learning English. IMO, it puts them at a distinct disadvantage not to. However, to ignore the issue that some people come here without those skills will only make the problem worse.

 

That's an interesting point. The term "oriental" refers to things, NOT people. In fact, it is considered a slur in Asia. Since there is no such country as Orient, they aren't oriental, they are Asian.

 

Originally posted by RichRocket
timing: Doesn't it strike you that continually referring to onself as an African-American is ill-advisedly focusing on a past that is ugly-- maybe even criminal but is long, long gone. Get with the current situation, I say! No reason in girding up your identity as victim. What good is it-- except to elicit sympathy from some?

I agree to an extent and would be curious to hear what any African-Americans think on the subject, however, even though I disagree with the term African-American, I can't find too much fault in it since I believe any people who have been enslaved, murdered, kidnapped, raped, persecuted, and denied most basic human rights over the course of the last few hundred years should be able to call themselves whatever the heck they want. It's easy for us to say get on with it and don't dwell on the past but we're not the ones who have that history of being so terribly wronged.

 

That sounds problematic, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Dual citizenship gives me some trouble anyway. I don't really think you can owe citizenship duties to two countries, but I don't think this issue makes multiculturalism in general a bad thing.

 

Sorry for quoting both..kind of in a rush.

I am definitley not a proponent of quotas. Quotas, IMO, are part of the PC problem. I am a capitalist, therefore, I believe that the best man or woman should get the job regardless of race, culture, age or gender. If speaking English is an important qualification of the job..you should, as the potential employer, have the right to eliminate non-english speakers from consideration for the position. In that vein, my advice to new citizens would be to learn English. This will give them more oppurtunity to get better jobs.

I am unsure about the relationship between being a bilingual nation and diluting our resources.

 

Well I'm so-called Afro-American and I despise the term.

 

My point was if you have a problem with those people, those who dont speak English then move. The authors point was if you dont want to leanr English than you shouldnt live in America. I disagreed.

 

I think we're getting closer to the core of this issue. And there may be some Canadian/American cultural differences here (me being the Canadian). I don't have a problem with hyphenated names. If someone tells me they are a Chinese-Canadian or an Aboriginal-Canadian, I don't feel uncomfortable with that. (If they say they are Quebecois and NOT Canadian, then I have more issues, but that's a different topic.) The hyphens clearly make you uncomfortable and it's not clear to me why. Canada calls itself a "multicultural society" in contrast to the American "melting pot" and while the real difference is highly debatable, we grow up seeing the hyphens as normal, even something to be proud of. There seems to be a different dynamic down there. What is it about the hyphen that you have trouble with?

 

I know I'm getting into this conversation a bit late, but I've been trying to find what I want to say (and the time to say it).

I feel that there is nothing wrong with immigration. It was how our country was founded. The problem I have is with the illegal immigrants and the "undocumented" immigrants. They come to our country, go on our welfare system and get free care at our hospitals. And they're not paying taxes for it. Many of the Mexican lawn workers are paid in cash and never even file income taxes. They get all the benefits of our society withour having to give up something for it.

How hard is it to come into our country legally? I am sincerely asking. Becuase it seems pretty easy to come in illegally. Maybe it should be harder to get in period? It's not all that easy to get into other countries. I had a friend volunteering in Costa Rica and he got kicked out because he had the wrong visa. Why can't it be that way in America?

And to clear some things up, there have been moves to change "American culture." A senate candidate (I believe) from Brownsville wanted to make it MANDATORY for all students in Texas to learn Spanish. Why should we? All that would accomplish is to make it easier for immigrants (legal and illegal) to NOT adapt to American culture.

And yes, I do believe America has a distinct culture. Many did come from Europe (language, religion and others). But we don't walk everywhere like the Europeans do. We also have many Native American traits in society. And considering that Texas was part of Mexico at one time, we already have a stron Mexican influence on society. Any more influence from Mexico and we would be Mexican!

If anything, I believe that everyone in the world should know either English or French (and possibly Mandrin Chinese), since those are the two official international languages. All of the announcements at the Olympics are done in English and French for that reason. If everyone in the world knows one of those languages, we should all get along fine.

 

The hyphen denotes separation, Grizzled.

 

I find it hard to believe that more people on this planet speak French than Spanish (or some dialect thereof), but I could be wrong - I have been before. I only mention it because I dont know how speaking French would be that beneficial (official international language or not) given what I said above.

 

I never said that French was more widely spoken, but I was told that French and English are the two international languages in French classes for a number of years. Mandrian Chinese is the spoken by the most people, however.

I could be wrong though too. Just letting you know what I heard.

 

But why? If we were standing in a room together, the fact that you are of African decent, that I am a WASP and that someone else is of Asian origin would be obvious. Why not just acknowledge the obvious? Why would the Chinese person have to deny their Chinese heritage to be American or Canadian? I don't see that the hyphen makes them any less of a citizen, and I don't see it as divisive. You do and I'm not sure why, so why?

 

You didn't hear me say that.

Maybe we just see things differently. For instance, when the horrible events of September 11 occurred, Americans were the victims in my eyes...not Chinese Americans, Afro-Americans, or Anglo-Americans....though we are many (backgrounds, etc.), we are one nation.

As far as acknowledging a particular race, I'd prefer your method of referring to my heritage. "He's of African descent." is more proper than "He's an Afro-American." The second assumes that I am from Africa, which I am not (not that anything is wrong with Africa). I was born here, live here and I would appreciate being recognized as such.

 

I think there are reasons, but why isn't just that they want to enough? I don't understand why it's a problem for you. I don't see it as alienating of defiant. I see it as self-respect. I get the sense of them being proud and confident of their past, and bringing that strength to be part of a new culture and country. We have large multicultural festivals here where people show off their native dress, dance, music, food, and culture and it's really amazing to see the richness of these cultures and to have them share with us and each other. (At these festivals there will be 25 or so pavilions that represent the different nationalities, and dedicated busses that take people to these pavilions all over the city.) We all have our own cultures that we are proud of, not ashamed of, but we are also all here to start a new life together. We respect each other's past but are building a common future together. That's what it says to me.