IMHO, the growing frustration in America is about MORE than.....

Stop being such a conservative socialist Democrat Nazi.

 

I'll admit it, I chuckled.

 

No, it's just stupid.

 

I don't know

I think there might be something to be said about white's becoming a minority in America and losing their grip on the "top tier of power" in the country.

IMHO, that's the growing frustration in (white) America.

 

Rules of debate and discussion #22356:

Avoid debating with folks who delusionally devolve all topics into binary systems of bizarre absolutes.

 

Or it could be as simple as being stuck in the worst recession since the early 80s, while the clueless allow demogouges fill in the blanks of "what's wrong" for them.

 

i blame the tax on tanning beds which, of course, proves the president is racist.

 

How many guesses do I get to figure out which camp you are in?

 

What does this even mean?

 

Yes, I'm panicking about losing my ability to oppress everyone who's a different shade as me. Thanks for narrowing it down for me.

 

Yes, it is.

I was hoping when I read this that you weren't going to contribute to the recently escalating political climate change, I really was.

And then my hopes were dashed...

[Internal dialogue]
Please let him use language that isn't complimentary towards one side and derogatory towards the other...
[/dialogue]

You actually believe that there is a class of people who just exists on entitlements? You are aware that the vast majority of Democrats pay taxes just like the Republicans do, right? You are aware that the number of people who live entirely off of entitlements is incredibly small and the single largest group who do are senior citizens, right?

You are aware that you are talking about turning responsibility over to state government, right?

I would also like you to show me a single person who espouses that government "knows what's best for the people." Faux "News" commentators opining about other people don't count.

There is an unofficial amendment process?

So, you are a strict Constitutionalist, eh? Do you honestly believe we should take every word the Framers put into the Constitution as 100% the way it should be?

At least you put in one that wasn't inflammatory in some way.

What about those who don't believe in God? Do they get rights in your mind?

Show me a single American who advocates for "everything in life" to be "fair and equalized among all its citizens."

Show me the guy who believes in "for free."

What about the people who believe that capitalism breeds a lot of corruption and that a Democratic government breeds corruption that can be weeded out through the voting process?

What about the people who hear the extremism on both sides, but believe one side amplifies its extremists more?

Show me the "line does not apply to them" guy.

What about those of us who believe it was a debt load that was hidden from its citizens and the rest of the EU by corrupt politicians and corporations lining their wallets with everything they could before the whole thing came crashing down?

What about those of us who believe that many, many people are so greedy that they WON'T give back to society unless they are taxed?

No, it is an easy argument to win because you have used so many straw men and logical fallacies that are clearly designed to bolster people's opinions of one side while deriding the other.

"Simple labeling" is putting it pretty mildly. Simple thinking is a little more accurate.

If you would like to discuss the fundamental differences, you need to first get an accurate idea of what the other side believes because based on this writing, you do not have such an understanding.

I agree, which is the reason I think the Coffee Party is far more reasonable than the Tea Party. They actually ask you to sign on to a civility pledge, which is refreshing for a political group.

No, you wouldn't.

I don't think that phrase is the "national motto" of the US, much as some people would like it to be.

Congratulations on your citizenship and desire to be involved. Please get a little more educated on the issues so that you can achieve an understanding of what the people on the other side of the political divide actually think, as opposed to the straw men created by Faux "News" commentators.

I don't have a label for you, just a suggestion. Don't watch MSNBC, CNN, or Fox, they are all steaming piles of garbage with a vested interest in seeing Americans fighting over politics rather than getting involved.

 

Those aren't your original thoughts, there's not one thing original about it. They're just cut and paste talking points.

 

Yeah, it really is a bigger thing than healthcare reform.

It's basically Marxist Nazism vs. American Patriotism, isn't it? Hey, it's just a fundemental disagreement, that's all.

 

I think it's a fundamental difference between those that understand proposals such as health care and the constitution, and those who have been mislead and believe lies about it.

 

I think the frustration is due largely to bad economic times. This complicates a 30 year rule of conservatives and Dems who have tried to placate conservatives and corporations. The working class in this country has lost about 1% per year in real purchasing power and it is now no longer to cope. The current recession makes it worse. Black folks have not historically had much to expect of the USA, but with civil rights are doing somewhat better than pre 1970, despite the recession. They don't therefore feel quite so riled up. Hispanics and Asians are mostly more recent arrivals who are generally doing better than where they came form. Similarly they aren't that riled up.

That leaves white American males who have been here for a long time and are just comparatively worse off than ever. This is complicated by such policies as busting unions and shipping a lot of good jobs overseas that they held. Further complicating things is that women are going to higher ed more and as we move to a knowlege economy the physical skills of the working class male are being downgraded in importance. Ther is no upside or mitigating factors for the while undereducated males and therefore their families. Of course having a black president and a woman Speaker of the House just enrages them more. Hence the Tea Party is successful at channeling their anger away from their corporate controllers.

 

No he just picked one that made no logical sense even in his warped bipolar framework.

I guess he is operating under the impression that California's state government is controlled by leftists communists and hence plunged into fiscal hell, while God is justly rewarding the red-blooded cowboys controlling Texas' purse. (with a multibillion dollar budget deficit)

Obviously, this doesn't bear much relation to a far more complex reality.

California, which faces a whole different set of issues than Texas, can attribute a large manner of its problems to two ostensibly populist ideas, namely (1) the ability of a legisative minority to effectively hold the state budget hostage, and (2) the failed attempts to return "power to the people" by allowing government by referendum.

So, I guess it's inflammatory to people who have actually have a clue as to what they are talking about.

 

wait, what?

well, you've confused me.

what is commonly known as conservatism in America stems from the following four philosophies, each of which do agree on certain premises but are also fundamentally contradictory. Neo-conservatism, religious conservatism, business liberalism and traditional Burkean conservatism.

In asserting that a majority of Americans would fall into one conveniently packaged label/stereotype (even when saying that you personally believe we should stop doing this), should I interpret this to mean that you believe most Americans are in favor of military interventions in foreign countries in the name of democracy (as neo-conservatives ardently espouse) or that Americans should maintain an isolationist position (as traditional conservatives maintain)? Are Americans in favor of greater social freedom? (business liberals) Or are they in favor of greater censure so that traditional culture and values will reign supreme? (neo-Conservatives and the Religious Right).

What are these fundamental viewpoints you believe most Americans agree on? That there is a God? That there is something against "entitlement" (from which you mean either corporate welfare or the welfare state or the inevitable nepotism that arises from unregulated capitalism? hmm).

You've kinda left the door open in your rush to get internet users all worried.

 

This caught my eye.

Did the CBO give that estimate knowing there would be two wars a significant tax cut, and a change to Medicare that wasn't fully funded? If not, then of course their estimates weren't accurate, they would never claim them to remain accurate through actual changes in legislation. Please confirm that you understand that distinction.

So the 90% figure might be pretty accurate right now, but all it takes is some changes (either through legislation or from outside forces) and that number will go up or down. If you want it to go down, then support changes that will bring it down.

...

To your overall point, I think a vast majority of Americans favor less government involvement in theory. If all else was equal we would love to have complete freedom. But the difference in philosophy is about what works to make society better. Some people think that the democratically elected government is the most effective way to bring about certain improvements to society as long as those changes don't unnecessarily infringe upon the rights of individuals. Others either think that the government is not effective at that, or that they'd rather skip the improvements to society because they value certain freedoms and liberties more.