It could've had something to do with the schedule as well: Sep 10 - N.Y. Jets - L (16-23) Sep 17 - at San Diego - L (7-40) Sep 24 - at Miami - L (10-13) They barely lost to two bad teams and were blown out by one of the best teams in the league. Are two close losses to bad-mediocre teams and one blowout by one of the best teams in the league really a good enough sample size to conclude that they weren't getting it?
no the process began with the worst expansion franchise in nfl history, they have earned their right to be criticized at every turn. but the titans were only slightly worse than the texans, now they are undoubtly better, so those draft picks may have something to do with that again, what group started this thread, so neither has a right to claim the other started whatever, people have been talking about vince since he was a freshman at ut uh it sure is, and the last time i checked its not the texans
i honestly and sincerely have NO IDEA what your point is, so i have no idea how to respond to it: are you being sarcastic? this would seem to be something i might lead off with. but then you go on to say: this seems in direct contrast to your more dismissive, sarcastic opening.... regardless, here is tennessee's starting OL and DL and the year they came to nashville: OL - olson ('98); bell ('04); roos ('05); stewart ('05); scaiffe, te ('05); mawae ('06); DL - haynesworth ('02); odom ('04); vande bosch ('05); brown ('06). so which is more likely: two now-nearly dominant units essentially assembled over a 2, 2.5 year period finally began to gel, or a single, mediocre QB somehow making a bad team good? i would never - and have never - argued baby vince was insignificant; only that his actualy contribution paled in comparison to the hype/credit he received. the OL, DL, fisher, luck, pacman jones were all more important.
ETA: and the titans didn't suddenly "get it" the day baby vince stepped onto the field, either. they were 2-4 in his first 6 starts, winning the two by a combined score of 9 and losing their 4 by a combined score of 63, or 15.8/game. in their three losses prior to baby vince, they lost their 3 games by a combined 43, or 14.3/game. so it's not like a magical switch went off.
i think the two events are completely and totally unreleated. the OL/DL were going to gel with or without vince young. look at my other post and when they acquired the starters along those lines - 60% came to tennessee in '05 and '06; 80% were over the period of '04-'06. as we're seeing with the texans, it takes time for lines to gel and play together as a unit. the oilers drafted munchak and matthews in back-to-back years ('82 and '83), and really didn't gel as a unit until the second half of the '86 season. i never said he had "little" impact; his impact and the credit he receives is not in line with his actual contributions.
No offense, but this is where the post should end and a key reason why the two sides will never agree. After 3 games the Titans were 0-3 (got creamed by SD but only lost by 7 and 3 in the other two games). Their starting QB up until that point had 1 TD, 6 picks (2 per game) and a completion % of 47%. I think it’s safe to say very erratic QB play led to the QB change. The Titans got creamed in VY’s first start (by the Cowgirls). They came within 1 point of beating that year’s champion in his second start (only 1 interception/mistake plus his teams lone touchdown). They won their next game against Washington (one fumble/mistake and one passing TD, completed over half his passes including a key 4th and two 23 yard pass that led to the go ahead TD as they overcame an 11 point deficit). I would call that immediate success, especially for a rookie QB (making plays, keeping the mistakes down). So by your own account that’s one great game, one good one and two solid ones (including one game winning play) from your ROOKIE QB. Again, emphasis on rookie. And I also think most QB’s are taken down for the sack against the Giants. Most QB’s are not large physical specimens that don’t fall easily…. Again, not great but great play for a rookie QB. Not the 2nd coming of Jesus but fairly silly to say he didn’t have an impact on his team turning the corner last season, and going from the bottom with our team to contending for the division and a playoff spot….
let me ask you a sincere question: which of my posts, defenses, etc., have been irrational? all i've EVER argued is that there's a middle, more gray area to an increasingly lazy reliance on black and white. it's either this or that. if you criticize vince young, you "believe that VY had little impact;" if you try and paint a larger, more encompassing picture of what david carr (and the texans) endured in his first four years, you're an excuse-making apologist. i don't live on either extreme. i learn as a i go; sometimes by participating in these threads. everything i've ever stated with regards to vince young is at least steeped in observation, research, etc. i try to avoid hyperbole because i find it interesting to turn things on their side and see what sticks. these debates become so polarizing... people choose sides, dig in their heels and then stick fingers in their ears and refuse to listen to more reasonable attitudes. you can certainly label my approach and posts a lot of things, but i fail to see how they've been irrational: i'm not making things up; i'm not misrepresenting facts....
ric, I hate to keep using you as an example, it really isn't fair, I understand i hate when people do it to me, you've just become the example in this debate with otto. no offense. I'll move on
That's why I said they had "pretty good" rookie seasons. But the reason why I think he had a "pretty good" season is that he finished the year strong, especially compared to how he started, 9 Total TDs (all basically in the 2nd half) is better than mediocre or below average IMO. But none of the Top 3 have lived up to their sophomore year expectations, that's for sure.
You left out YoD. Bush's YoD was like 2,77something last year. Almost 2800 yards. It set an NFL record. It was all over ESPN. It was first out of the 9 rookies, and by a long shot, too. Any discussion on Reggie Bush begins and ends with YoD, baby. He's an all-timer in this all-important statistic. ( YoD is Yards off Decoy )
Which they'd probably end up blowing on another defensive lineman...although this year Miami has far too much momemtum in the race for that top pick. Wonder if they'll pass on the franchise QB and pick another KR/WR like Ted Ginn Jr. again?
Miami picked up Beck last year so I don't think they'll go w/ a QB. They could really use OL help so Jake Long would be a solid/smart pick. But then again...we're talking about the Dolphins.
I'd be interested to know how many "franchise QBs" were top overall picks and how many were top 5. Aikman wasn't. Was Montana or Elway? Favre wasn't. I'm wondering if for every Pick 1 superstar there are five RyanLeafTimCouchDavidCarrs.
aikman wasn't what? he was the top overall pick. so was elway. bradshaw, too. and manning. vick. carr. i think the only other one since 1970 was steve bartkowski.
At the risk of sounding reasonable, I have watched VY aka The Chosen One closely this season and it appears to me that the main problem he's facing is that Norm Chow has not geared their offense to take advantage of his talents. His passing is really not that bad - he just has an odd looking flick type of throw. His passes are indeed more accurate than I would have thought given his peculiar throwing motion. But it does appear that he and his receivers and Norm Chow are all on different pages - they appear to be seeing different things out there as if they aren't making the proper reads. And Chow has leaned far too heavily on the run with a conservative game plan which reduces their number of big plays on offense and ends up digging them into a hole. After all, defense can only carry you so far - at some point you gotta put some points on the board. It's a shame that he's playing without the cadre of receivers that we have here because (when healthy) the Texans' receiving core is far superior to that of Tennessee. All in all, I think it's a bit premature to cover the kid with dirt just yet because he does have the drive, grit and determination to become a topflight QB in the NFL unlike the former QB from here whose name shall not be uttered.
i thought you might have meant aikman wasn't a franchise QB (which he wasn'tcoughcough)... yeah, first overall pick in '89. mine, too - i left out plunkett, testaverde, george, bledsoe and couch.
