Yeah, those guys are right....all luck. Yeah, his stats aren't pretty, but the same team went from winning to losing with him in the line-up (last season). There is no data in favor of or against the impact he had in those wins. However, I will let my common sense rule and conclude that when a team goes from sucking to winning after they make a QB change (most important position on the field), then the QB must be having some kinda impact, especially when his coaches and teammates are saying so (but hey, what do they know). I think Vince is making less big plays this season (i.e. the time he BEAT US) and making more mistakes. He needs work. And while I admit I don't heavily frequent Texans threads, are the same guys dogging VY also dogging Schuab? I just did a stat comparison and he has thrown 7 int's and lost 3 fumbles (fumbled 7 times actually). He has 1 less turnover than VY and 1 more TD (Vince has 6 total, 4 passing and 2 rushing).
Nobody claims MS to be a great qb. Nobody says the he has "it". Nobody says that a team wont go to a Superbowl without him. Nobody would give up being a Houston fan because they didn't draft him. And like you said, Matt is better. Must suck for you.
No. My point is a singular event started all this debate about the relative merits of Vince Young and the Texans. That event was the Texans passing on Vince Young and a fractional number of the posters flipping out. If you would like to blame the Texans, I guess that’s fine too. But my original post still stands. If people didn't talk about Vince as the greatest ever, abjectly worship him, and declare the Texans cursed for all eternity, I wouldn't be talking about him. I have nothing against him personally. I think eventually he could be quite a good NFL quarterback, and he certainly can be exciting. The salient point, again for emphasis, was that the reaction by the VYOFs to the Texan decision to pass on him is the basis for the conversation, and the reason we all continue to talk about him. Why does anybody feel the need to start a thread about how passing on Vince wasn’t the end of the world? Because Vince fans claimed it would be, and when some evidence to the contrary arrives, us non-VYOF's feel the need to point out that you were wrong. Sure we Texans fans are embittered. We spent a year and a half listen to people tell us our team is the stupidist of all time and will regret their mistake until the heat death of the universe. The whole thing is a bit of schadenfreude and as such is a kind of a base pleasure. But I feel that I am returning the same kind of nastiness that has been heaped on my team in kind. If you think otherwise, I understand. But I guess you are still debating whether there is reason for schadenfreude or not, so that might be irrelevant. Apparently you misunderstand. My point was that using the search function wasn't necessary. That if you polled a bunch of posters on the BBS, most of them would say that there are a lot of posters - a whole bunch more than just tinman - who said that the Texans made one of the worst draft decisions of all time because they passed on Vince Young. I don't think the truth of that point is worth debating or trying to prove. If you disagree and really want to challenge that characterization, we can discuss it.
So if I visit the Texand threads (especially fron the beginning of the season) I won't find any posts stating that MS will be a great QB someday, that he has "it", etc? As far as folks giving up on being a "fan" for whatever reason, WHY DO YOU CARE? Why do you care who another man roots for, for whatever reason? Saying I will root for this team because I live in Houston is just as silly as rooting for a team because they have a player you like...assuming you think either is silly. I guess we have lots of dumb international Rocket fans that root for the team because Yao is on it, etc....
I care about Titans fans like I care about Mavs fans. They both completely suck and need to be reminded of the fact constantly.
again there are as many threads about vince having a bad game as there are other vince threads, for example, the thread you're posting in. and i would disagree, if the texans weren't such a pathetic franchise, there wouldn't be such an obssession, either way with vince. because believe me, if the texans were better than the titans, the vince critics wouldn't feel the need to post about his woes. and lastly, again, go look at my thread about the defensive line, which was fully civil and rational, until ric jumped in a week late and accused me of starting it out of vy love. go and look at it, and then you might think twice about using ric as the example of a "rational" fan. dude, honestly I couldn't care less about vince playing in this town, my whole defense of vince of vince is because of vince. i haven't cared about a particular player playing in this town since steve francis was traded. I'm a grown man, i don't root for these franchises like i used to. so you may call my defense of vince irrational, but it has nothing to do with the texans, believe me, I've never been a big fan of theres anyway. i root for them because they are the hometown team, but that's about it.
this is overly simplictic reasoning and a causal disconnect. it might have been the same team, in terms of the players, but their familiarity with the system - not to mention each other - was not. that's something that comes with experience and maybe it wasn't vince young, but the OL and DL getting "it" that was more important. that the lines have continued to play at an exceedingly high level this year only underscores the idea. last year, tennessee was also very fortunate - no shame in that. teams that win generally enjoy good luck. they won games that, any other year, they might not -- a 60-yard game-winning field goal; a 4Q opponent meltdown in which they coughed up a three-score lead; the defense scoring three touchdowns in a 3-point win; even, yes, winning a coin flip in OT. its unfathomable how anyone could look at those results, dismiss them as flukey or fortunate, and instead lock in on some intangible presence of a single player.
So that experience and “getting it” suddenly happened when Vince took over? And you call my argument simplistic? As I stated in another thread you will not be convinced, and I’m not trying to convince you. I’m completely fine that we don’t agree. Continue to believe that VY had little impact, while the Titans are happy continuing to win or at least be competitive.
Yup. After 2+ years of the OL and DL not getting it, it all changed the day Vince Young entered the starting lineup. Like I said, all luck. The coaches and players who credited Vince for changing the attitude of the team and practices are all either liars or clueless. No one except the Texans fan who doesn't even watch Titans games knows what was really going on.
Then why are we arguing??? How 'bout them Texans! They didn't lose this week! How 'bout those Rox!!! Now, let's go to Starbucks and have a Latte. My treat.
But the process necessarily had to begin with the Texans are stupid Vince is great thread. Everyting that comes after plays out because of that. And Vince's pathetic play indicates that you have no idea what you are talking about and the Texans didn't make a mistake. ...and we are back where we started. But the only reason I care. If Vince wasn't linked to some supposed Texans mistake, and if people didn't constantly bring that up, you could start all the Vince manlove threads that you want and the rest of us would ignore you. If you start a thread about Chris Simms as the greatest of all time nobody will respond much. That doesn't mean that everybody agrees. And I'm not sure if you noticed it, but you are on a BBS dedicated to support of an individual team. Perhaps you are in the wrong place?
I wonder if one of the reasons we're so high on a guy with an infectious attitude and charismatic leadership qualities stems from the fact that we had the very definition of plain vanilla in Houston for five years. To make it worse, in what is most likely a painful coincidence Mr. Vanilla also happened to suck to holy heaven as an NFL quarterback. It seems that part of the whole VY vitriol wasn't just the Texans' passing on him, but their statement that they didn't need VY because they had Vanilla. Like the Texans passed on Golden Boy so they retain Vanilla Boy. I can recall several posters who came on board emotionally just because Vanilla Boy got shipped out of town. I can't say I blame them. For whatever reason you choose, there were a lot of reasons to dislike David Carr.
The problem you have is that the vast majority of the VY threads in this forum (not the hangout) are started by *Texans* fans - not VY fans. It's almost universally Texans fans that bring up VY here and then simultaneously whine that people talking about VY - this thread is a perfect example.
In Young's first 4 starts in 2006 (first start was game 4), the Titans were 2-4, so nothing happened immediately upon Young starting. Starting with his 7th game the Titans went on a 6 game winning streak. In his 7th game, he threw for 101 yards and the Titans defeated the Eagles 31-13. The Titans returned both a punt and a fumble for TDs and Henry had a 70 yard run. In his 8th game, Young had a great game and led the Titans to a huge 4th quarter win over the Giants and it could be argued that this was the game the "legend" was born. Ironically, had one of the Giants players inexplicably not released Young when he had him wrapped up for a sack, they quite probably would have lost that game. Game 9 was won one on a 60 yard FG at the end of the game. Young was decent in this one. Again, an improbable play (60 yard FG), adds to the "legend", although without the FG, the game would have gone into OT and who knows what would have happened. Game 10 was the OT run for the TD against the Texans. Other than that he had a pretty solid game. Game 11 was a win with a fumble return and 2 interception returns for TDs. Young was relatively terrible. Game 12 was a good one for Young. Good stats, good win. Game 13 was not a good one for Young. Poor stats, but they lost to the Patriots, nothing to be ashamed of. All in all, folks seem to forget the the Titans 6 game winning streak last year started in the 7th start of Young's career. Nothing "magical" happened when he first took the field. A few of those wins were arguably in spite of Young and a few were (in large part) because of Young.
could you post the last ten VY threads and tell me who started them? i really don't know what you say is true or not. this is a genuine request. if that is really the case, then hey, i don't know what to say except that texans fans should shut up about him.
I don't necessarily agree with this if you take the totality of threads back 30 months to the draft two years ago. But I would say that necessarily, the more Vince sucks the more Texans fans will chime in to crow, while the more Vince does well, the more his rabid legions will chime in to do their own crowing. So perhaps your statement provides answers that you don't intend. I will agree that in the past 6 months there have been more anti-Vince threads than the other way around. Last year, however, there was an endless litany of Vince-love threads, one after another. In addition to the necessary poorer performance of Vince this year, I attribute the recent rise in anti-Vince threads to the release of pent up frustration.
no kidding. we've had to put up with having to read how great he is, and we're just returning the favor.
