I'll admit that you are right on this one. VY is not missing the wide open guys. Unfortunately for him, more often than not, the wide open guy doesn't play for the Titans.
It can absolutely be done, hell, we can still talk about Hakeem vs. Jordan if we really wanted. I guess I meant the controversey of "whether Mario was worth the #1 pick or not." We'll never know whether we would have been better off w/ VY, Bush, or what we could have used w/ the picks we gave up for Schaub. But as far as discussing whether he worthy of the pick vs. Bush/VY, its hard to argue that he wasn't worth it (individual-wise).
If you ignore the incorrect of assessment of David Carr as the long term answer at QB and are just choosng between MW and Bush, yes their football logic was right on. As for being "right" re-ponying up for Carr (vs letting him walk), drafting VY (or if you want to bring up trading down Cutler + a bundle), and using the money and picks that would have been otherwise saved/acquired in moving past the Carr extension mistake--not so clear and won't be for a long time. But one can say the Texans look to be in a positive direction.
I still have to say yes but not because I feel that Mario isn't a good player or that he'll never amount to a good/great player because that's never been my position at all. He's shaping up pretty well. No, I just felt that the right choice then should have been a QB. Failing that, I would have shopped the pick and traded down and picked up some more draft picks because this team needed all the talent it could get. Notice that I said that's what I would have done. Nowhere have I said that anyone who felt differently is wrong, stupid, naive or touched in the head. But no matter how you choose to look at it, the inescapable fact is that getting picked first overall carries with it an inherent set of expectations and hence, the controversy over the pick. It's really a controversy in name only and one that has more to do with the Texans' lack of success more than anything else. Had the Texans been aviable franchise that was competative in games, none of this would have ever come to be and folks proabbly wouldn't feel the need be so defensive about his being picked 1st. I can understand that the folks who have invested their passion and support in this team have been really beaten down during the past 5 years and believe me, I respect them all the more for that passion. I will freely admit that I do not approach the Texans with passion but rather from a much more analytical POV. But what really disturbs me is that if one offers up an alternative or contrary POV, they wind up being perceived as and accused of attacking those who don't share said POV. I'm afraid that it's become more important to pick sides than to discuss things.
Mario Williams certainly looks like a #1 pick quality player. I certainly think VY has too from what we have seen from him (ROY as a QB pretty much validates that). I would certainly rather have an John Elway over a Reggie White, or Donovan McNabb over a Michael Strahan. But no matter what the other alternative choices do, you certainly won't be crucified if you use your #1 pick on any of them. So if MW stays near the top in the league sacks, the Texans will look fine.
fine. forget QB rating. He has a lot of turnovers and he has missed wide open guys. He has misread defenses. He is forcing balls (2 ints in the endzone not too long ago). He isnt playing that well. He really didnt even have that good of a year last year. People love him and understandible so...especially someone from texas and even worse if you went to UT. It's understandable. But call a spade a spade and be honest. VY isnt very good right now, and he really wasnt very good last year either. He made some big plays and turned some heads, no doubt, overall as a QB it was barely average. "he" maybe in the playoff hunt, but "he" isnt doing that much to help. Its simply unfair to a great defense, great running game and great coaching that are ACTUALLY winning games.
I think a lot of us, when discussing MW with you, forget this about you and/or mix you up with someone who was screaming for VY. See, we've been around the block on this a few dozen times already, so I'll just say can we agree to disagree? Because I respectfully disagree (as you well know). No, that's not it. It's become more important to squash the VYOFs than to discuss things. Get it right, or we'll come after you next.
Hillboy, honest question. What does Mario have to do to justify being selected #1? In other words, if what he is doing right now isnt good enough, then what is? Surely, at some level of performance, you can say that he was a solid pick at #1.
I know hillboy said the criteria to b**** about Carr is to get to .500 or just over it. So we are close.
To Hillboy, Mario will justify being the #1 pick when he cures cancer, ends world hunger and averages 30 sacks a game. Or, alternatively, Mario raises his hand and miraculously cures him of prideful stubbornness.
So there are people who are just innately "first pick worthy" and people who aren't? That gives no bearing to how they actually perform in the NFL. If I'm understanding you correctly, you're actually not factoring the later future performance but rather the makeup and potential of a prospect. It sounds like you have a particular valuation of the slot pegged to the pre-draft perceived value of the prospect. A similar example would be Chicago taking Devin Hester in the 2nd round. Almost everyone panned the move, but he's turned out to be one of the most exciting players in the league. Does that still make picking him in the 2nd round stupid?
I'm comparing drafting Mario Williams 1st overall to Devin Hester in the 2nd round. Sorry if thats not clear.
Last year...I had to listen to the all the "The Texans Failure to Draft The Mighty Vince Young Will Doom the Texas Franchise to Oblivion" crap til it was coming out my ears. So naturally I am tempted to break out into a 8 minute 15 second song entitled "I Told Ya So, Ya Burnt Orange Mo-Rons". At this time last year Vince was playing better than an injured Mario, who still had a whole lot to learn (much of which he is apparently learning at a fantastic rate). Clearly Mario Williams is a Pro Bowl level talent. Moreover, I expect he is going to improve into an offensive co-ordinators nightmare (if he isn't already). Vince has some useful intangibles, a decent if inaccurate arm, and great mobility. In college that skill set made him dominant. When you coupled that with his "will to win" he was a magical performer in college. In the NFL, he simply isn't fast enough to run away from defenses regardless of what their angles look like. Is it possible that Vince will improve and adjust his game enough to be a plus quarterback. Certainly it is. Is there anyone who's cell phone ringtone is not the University of Texas fight song who thinks that he would have been a better pick than Mario Williams... Probably not a single one.
I know you didn't ask me, but my answer is nothing. I don't believe it is a valid question. There are many who don't agree with me and that's fine, but them's my 2 cents anyhow.
Bottom line: Texans fans wouldn't be piling on VY if the team wasnt lambasted for taking Mario with the #1 pick. Heck, if it werent rubbed in their faces for almost 2 years many of the so called haters would probably be supportive of him in games not involving the Texans. For a lot of people(many not on this forum) every big play that Mario makes validates the pick. Salvo 1 belonged to the throngs of VY fans and haters of the Texans for not taking him with the pick, and then having it thrown in their faces when Young did his best *Randall Cunningham impression and just made a few plays during the course of the game to win it at Reliant Stadium(he had an average to poor game save a couple big plays). This has been going on for almost 2 years. It was lukewarm after the draft, but really heated up after the game at Reliant. The Texans are now being validated in the pick and many of the fans are returning fire. Cant really blame them. *Buddy Ryan told Randall Cunningham to just make a couple plays per game during his tenure in Philly when they had an amazing defense.
after reading your post I understand your point. But the counter is still did you get value if you could have picked that player further down. Now I'm not so sure Mario would have lasted five picks as Hillboy argues, but there is a legitimate point to getting value. in other words, if you could have picked mario later and gotten an extra draft pick, it doesn't matter how well he does. You will never get that opportunity back. you guys are really arguing two different points, of course mario is playing like a first pick. I thought the pick was good (factoring in they didn't want vince) because defensive ends who are playmakers don't grow on trees and they can make a huge difference on a defense.
thats what my #1 choice was. they say they couldn't get value. Since Casserly was still around, I tend to think they could have and didn't or screwed up.
