No, he saved at least 3 games they were going to lose because he used his legs to make positive plays out play few other QBs would have gotten anything out of. They went from about the worst team in the league and certainly the least playmaking offense in the league--to mediocre. He isn't making those plays this year, at least not nearly as often. Check Tenn's record over the last about 40 games with VY VS without him and tell me you conclude he makes no difference in the competitiveness of that team. Of course I am sure you could give as forcefull of a defense as a looney on a summer night in Roswell who swears by what he saw 30 years ago (after eating some local mushrooms). Oh that is right, the real reason was Travis Henry was pro bowl running back and he turned them around. Oh wait, the real reason was Pacman Jones. Oh wait, no the REAL reason is Chris Brown is awesume. No wait, it is LenDale White who is THE difference...no wait it WAS.....
I really don't think Vince Young supporters will EVER change their mind anyway. There's no point in trying to change someone's mind. The VY force is just too strong.
I like VY. I'll always like him. But if he never becomes what I think he will become, I'll tell you I was wrong. It seems a bit premature to be talking about that now, though.
Ideally, you'd like to see progression every year. He's taken a step backward this year - if he doesn't take a step forward next year, he'd be a disappointment without a doubt. He'd essentially have two full seasons under his belt and should be ready to take the next step. It would be helpful to have some receivers, but even without them, he should show some real improvement, whether it be running or passing or both. Funny, though, how this whole "when should VY be good" thing has only come up after Mario started picking up lots of sacks. Before that, it was always "wait and see - he'll improve" or "sacks aren't a good measuring stick". Apparently, it stopping being premature to judge him and became a good measuring stick as soon as he had some really good games.
Quarterbacks take longer to adapt to the NFL even under the best of circumstances. 2nd year QBs aren't even approaching their maximum potential. Give it until year 3 or 4 before you can make a full evaluation of VY. DEs and RBs can get by on raw ability, power and speed and quickness to a large extant, but QBs have to learn how to manage a game and read NFL defenses. It's a much more demanding position. It would also help if he had receivers to throw to.
Vince Young is the Micheal Jordan of the NFL! He will revolutionize the QB position! that's not premature at all.
See, the difference is that called a prediction. By definition, when making a projection about a prospect, it has to be done prematurely because the guy hasn't played. That's the case if you project VY to be MJ or Akili Smith, or Reggie Bush to be Gale Sayers or Eric Metcalf. But making the determination whether those projections were true takes time. I thought Reggie Bush would be a bust. It's not nearly soon enough to ultimately know if I was right or not - and running backs are the easiest position to have an immediate impact. QB's take the longest, so of course it would take time. Did you have a problem with Rockets fans making any predictions about Yao? Did you feel Yao could then be fully judged after 1.5 seasons in the NBA?
you don't see the irony in your previous post? last year, it was all, "Vince Young will lead the Titans to the Promise land. He has all the intangibles. He just wins. vinceyoung.jpg vinceyoung.jpg vinceyoung.jpg vinceyoung.jpg vinceyoung.jpg" now this year, with his Carr-like stats, those same people are you saying, "It's only his second year. He'll improve. Wait and see. yadda yadda yadda."
First off, are you so sure it's the same people? I don't see tinman or DaDakota or whatnot posting here about VY. I see people like MadMax who very much were impressed by Vince last year (rightfully so) and continue to believe their initial projections that'd eventually be a game-changing force. Both statements you quoted, by the way, are projections. No one said he would lead them to the "promised land" last year. And before this season, most people, Texans and Titans fans, thought the Titans as a team had regressed, losing their RB, both WRs, and best defensive player while not signing anyone of note, so I don't think anyone expected them to go the "promised land" this year either. I don't think anyone has argued that he hasn't been disappointing or regressed this year. So, no, I don't see the irony. I think VY wowed a lot of people last year and not so much this year. What the ultimate story of VY will be is still to be determined. Same with Mario. Same with Leinart, Cutler, and Bush. All have had some ups, all have had some downs, and none can be labelled busts or stars at this point.
I think this sums it up the best. I have seen numerous times where the Bush supporters have admitted they were wrong and are happy to have Mario. The VY supporters (other than MadMax) will never. VY could suck it up for the next 5 years and Desert_Scar, Major, pgabriel & company will make excuses for him. This debate will never die becuase they will never admit they were wrong, no matter what happens. Notice that there are no more Mario vs Bush arguments? Those are long gone. The Bush supporters appear to be a bit more sane and the crazy rabid orange bleeding VY supporters.
Yeah, Vince is a real force out there. 7 touchdown passes and 16 interceptions. He's great, d00d!!!!11eleven
See - this is the silliness of the whole thing. I was fine with keeping David Carr and not drafting Vince if the Texans felt Carr was salvagable. I didn't believe he was, but I was OK with the decision (disappointed, but fine with it). My real problem with Carr started mid-last year when it was clearly he had made no progress and the coach refused to bench him. I was a big believer that if Reggie Bush was as sought after as people said, that the smartest move was to trade down and collect as many picks as possible. In general, I believe this is the smart strategy for all NFL teams regardless because of the cost/benefit of what you get from, for example, a #15 pick and a top-5 pick. My evaluation of Vince is as a player has nothing to do with whether he should be a Texan or not. I'm not a Texans fan or a Titans fan. In fact, I've stated both that VY's regressed this year and why and a time frame for when he should improve. Yet, you have blanketed a bunch of people into a group simply because you disagree with them. Not only that, you've decided what those people will do over the next several years. Why? Because there's no way to argue with you on something that's never happened. It's the very definition of BBS childishness. Can't argue facts so you just go to random attacks with no substance. Great job quoting a post with no substance and adding no substance. It contributes a whole lot to the discussion.
Nah, the haters are infinetly more bent on deniel. I am not saying VY is having a great year. But idea of buyers remorse in Tenn is ludicrous. Let's revist haters logic.... Most of the haters don't seem to know how rare ROY QBs are. VY is not having as good year as last, but so what, last year was a crazy bar for a young QB in terms of number of plays made (not in terms of QB rating, because that is clearly a biased metric of QB effectiveness when lots of TDs and conversion come on the ground). Anyone who has watched many of Eli meltdowns (forget the stats--look at his play in big moments), or Big Ben's last year, or Alex Smith's or Philip Rivers or Matt Leinart ups and downs, would have a much better perspective on VY--and all but Smith have much superior weapons around them. Most young top tier prospects don't have the cast of an Anderson, Rodgers, or Cutler--if you want to bring them up. So no, I don't think Tenn has buyers remorse and if you don't think most NFL teams would love to have their hands on last year's ROY you guys are in deniel. A down year 2 in many aspects (thought his compl % is up to a respectable 62%), when I think most thought it would be year 3 before he was starting at all, is not all that concerning. If Tenn gets some legit receivers who can create space while other things on that offense remain similar, and VY's TD/INT ratio (which should include throwing and passing TDs combined--they both earn 6 points) doesn't improve, then I'd be very concerned. Being a year 2 QB with the most atrocious group of ball catchers in the league makes him a long way from that. Oh, and of course the haters don't want to bother looking at the Titans record over the last 40 or so games with him and without it. As if the team winning is unimportant.
As far as VY is concerned...I think waiting until the end of next season would be the prudent thing to do before making judgment. I think he has been incredibly unspectacular, but then again, I didnt think he would have had the impact he did his rookie year. He definitely needs to improve as he's got a long way to go IMO. However, its still too early to decide what kind of player he will become. I am very pleased with the production of Mario. I think he is improving very nicely and Im definitely looking forward to watching him evolve into a force. Did the Texans make the correct choice by taking Mario? Did the Texans make a poor decision by not choosing Young? I think, in the end, it will be similar to asking if the Rockets messed up by taking Hakeem over Jordan. The good news for Texans fans is that the Sam Bowie analogy seems to be long gone. Go Texans.
Oh, I just want to add I am glad the Texans decided to draft Mario over Bush once they decided to focus on those two (let set aside the other for now). I didn't know much about Mario, but knew Bush was totally overrated as a runnign back because he hadn't shown much between the tackles skills or instincts--the most important thing for a running back. That was a ballsy move.
